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----- Original Message -----
From: "jim gilmore" <jgilmore@oeonline.com>
To: "Military Vehicles List" <mil-veh@uller.skylee.com>
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 7:41 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] [MV]Shell/ Ferret fluid
Hi All,
> My original intent in posting the difficulties Ed Berkery and I had in
> obtaining the correct Shell fluid for our Saladins was done with the
intent
> and hope of someone coming up with a source for it that we could purchase
> this fluid in the US or if need be in the UK. To this end it was a
success
> as Richard and others have provided both information and an offer to sell
> us what we want. Thanks for that.
>
Thanks for the credit and I'm happy to do whatever is possible, that you
feel you need, to keep some old British ironware running there.
> It has also brought up more questions and conflicting data.......
>
> >Richard wrote,
> >I have just this moment spoken to James Halligan at Shell UK tech.
> >...Stearic acid is a lubricosity improver or wetting agent but the nature
and
> >task of hydraulic oils means they all have something to do this....
>
> This was what we had been told and was described as "improving
> flowabilty".
>
They did say it was small beer, all hydraulic oils have something to do this
be it Stearic acid or whatever.
Do remember the Mil wanted the things to work from -nēC to cooking, under
the worst cases of mal-attention et al for a week or two under battle
conditions.
> .......Its called "Aeroshell Fluid No. 1" or US translated,
> "Aeroshell Fluid #1".
> >It is exactly the same as Shell Tellus T 15.........
>
>
> The Aero Shell Fluid #1 shows on the Shell alternatives list as a
> substitute for OM-13 but not on the M.O.D. sheets. This appears to be the
> ticket for a match for the oil, however as you have stated it is
> expensive. Clavis would, I think, be less costly.
>
The MoD rarely if ever state alternatives, I have an older lube equivalent
chart that was obviously derived at official request but not formalised by
the MoD as gospel, as imagined the attached comments from the makers go
along the lines of "not tested to full mil spec but equivalent in our
opinion." Butt covering as you'd expect and written by a contracts office
cleric.
Surprisingly Esso (or Exxon in the US) list something as mundane as "Esso
Utility Oil" as equivalent to OM 13, likely something you oil you mower and
secateurs with.
> However, I have two different sheets from Shell that give the
> civilian replacements for OM-13 but they don't list the Tellus T 15.
> One Shell list titled "Joint Services Designations and Relevant Shell
> Grades" only lists Aero Shell Fluid 1 as a replacement for OM-13
> The other list "Shell Specifications and Shell Group
> Products" (revised 1995) lists for NATO O-134 (OM-13) the
> following; Aero Shell Fluid 1, Aero Shell Turbine Oil 3, Clavus Oil 15,
> Tellus Oil C-10 .
>
Well they would.
Only Shell Aero Fluid # 1 is exact, as its tested and approved to the same
technical spec which also calls for individual batch testing. OM 13 not
batch tested and qualified is not OM 13 therefore.
Broadly speaking the ISO15 discharge pipe in the refinery here has a Y
branch and two can fillers. One flows a lot into yellow cans marked "Tellus
T 15" the other a mere trickle into OD cans marked OM -13 blah, blah, blah;
and others marked Shell Aero Fluid No.1, these cans stay where they are
until the labs have analysed a sample from each, written gobs of bumf,
contracts have hiked the price by 50 times and then they're shipped.
> No mention in either list of Tellus T 15. As you can see it gets
> confusing as just what product is actually the direct replacement. All
> these oils are listed on Shell data sent to us by Shell themselves.
>
> Just to muddle this up some more.....I have a M.O.D. listing titled
> "Commercial Products Suggested by Oil Suppliers as Being Alternatives to
> MOD Specifications for Lubricants Etc."
>
Ah, we have the same song sheet.
> Which states that Shell recommends "Clavus Oil 15 or Tellus R 10"
The
> footnote on this states "Lubricating oil OM-13 -- Clavus oil 15 or Tellus
R
> 10 depending on application."
>
It does indeed.
> So we have Shell listing Aero Shell 1, Turbine Oil 3, Clavus Oil 15,
> Tellus Oil C 10 and Tellus Oil R 10 all being replacements for OM-13.
> You can see why we became confused with just one supplier suggesting
> 5 different oils. Note that Tellus T 15 was not suggested by Shell while
> Aero Shell 1 is. Could all these oils be the same?
>
I think in a word, yes.
> I can only wonder why Shell now recommends Tellus T 15 when they
> only five years ago listed Tellus R or C 10 as the correct one.
> We will follow up on the data that Tellus T 15 is the same as Aero
> Shell and get the spec. sheet from Shell just to be sure.
>
That "equivalents" sheet is way old, I have also drawn data from the keeper
of the Mil lube specs at the Defence Research Agency too.
I still firmly believe, and Shell tech concur, common as muck ISO 32 does
everything you want in domestic, non-arctic duty and the grief this stuff
gets in a mundane back-hoe even, let alone a serious tracked excavator, is
several magnitudes worse than the piffling 2600psi pump found in a
Saracen/Saladin/Stalwart can manage, and then the steering PRV is set to a
measly 1400psi. Compared to the steering pump my crane/winch main PTO pump
is huge and that only manages 2650psi and 5 galls a minute.
This is fed from the 15 gal (18 US) tank which over the last three years has
had Newton (whoever they are) HG 10, ISO 32 and Shell TX 46 tipped in it,
the best guess is its about ISO 28 and 2/3rds. The steering steers, the
winch winches and the crane lifts. Its the only thing which doesn't leak
except when you heave the engine out and find a surprising amount lives in
the pipes below the drain point and when its back in you find that you did
actually forget to snug the union on the pump output. Nothing the hot
washer wont shift though.
A word to the wise for 623/4 operators, it is important that the hydraulic
tank is filled with the crane fully folded. The boom ram is single acting
and raising this just a bit consumes a lot of oil. If, as I did, using the
jib and boom raised as a load cover ridge pole, you then fill the
conveniently placed tank on the rear of the cab near the roof, wondering why
you haven't noticed two gallons of spare oil that _must_ be washing around
in the punt, do not then stow the crane whilst crouched over the tank, I
didn't fortunately. However the now excess fluid returning to the tank at
the published 5 galls/min has the dipstick shoot skywards like a bolt from a
cross-bow followed by a solid rod of quite noisome hydraulic oil.
The dipstick missed me on the way down, seeing as I was galvanised to the
spot, however, the oil was much more accurate and found its mark.
I truly cannot find any merit in hydraulic oil as a substitute for the
customary water as a personal shower, nor is the use of gritty poly-chip
industrial hand cleaner nearly so nice as regular, all-over, shower gel,
even when the Stalwart Maintenance Support Team (wife) suggests its likely
an excellent skin exfoliate and hugely cheaper than the regular ground peach
pip (pit) in perfumed unguent from the pharmacy.
> >If you do want a reference sample for analysis I have several stencilled,
> >OD, sealed 1L tins of actual OM 13, you will see plenty no doubt at
Beltring
> >too.
>
> Thanks for the kind offer and I hope to talk more with you there.
>
We can guarantee to be at the bottom end of the "south field" alongside the
"serious" German restorers, and with the most strikingly coloured rope-off
re-bar stakes you have ever seen, behind this will be the best Morris
Commercial PU8/2 you will ever see, a unique F15 Polsten in DTB, a very nice
KK and possibly a driving, 30 cyl M4A4 multibank in genuine, original and
very rare 75mm configuration, if enough midnight oil is expended.
Richard
Southampton - England
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