From: Neil E. Amrhein (neil@compu-powr.com)
Date: Tue Jun 04 2002 - 04:14:45 PDT
It appears that this post generated quite a bit of interest (it's no
Jerry can thread, but hey.....).
I think I replied to all who emailed me privately, positive or negative.
Thank you all for your comments. Now, I would like to address the replies
that were made to the list.
I'm sure it sounded to several of you that I am crying or whining.
Thanks to those of you who felt the need to insult me. That speaks volumes
of your personalities. I am *complaining*, for sure, but you can call it
what you like. Before getting into this hobby, I was (and still am) into the
car show scene. That is the world from which I come. Judges are very careful
around show cars.
I hold no personal grudge against either Mr. Mele or Mr. Wilson. I do,
however, think they need to be more mindful of their actions when they judge
a vehicle. I am not going to apologize for my statements. I believe the
judges were wrong in their actions. The fact that it took me 3 weeks to post
about this is irrelevant. I merely wanted the opinion of the list about how
bigger trucks are judged in comparison to how the smaller vehicles. From all
of the responses I received, I'd say most list members concur with my
statements.
Mr. Mele, The clipboard that I saw sitting on my bumper/fender had no
visible vinyl covering on it. It was a plain, brown, press-board (for lack
of the appropriate term) clipboard with a metal clip - standard stuff. If I
am wrong, that's fine. I don't mind being wrong, but I'm pretty sure I'm
right. Regardless of whether or not the clipboard had a cover, I should not
have had to complain about it's placement to anyone. It should have never
come to rest on my truck. Period.
I don't doubt or discount Mr. Wilson's qualifications as a body man. He
was quick to point out the dents in my truck, and rightfully so. As I said
in my original email, "Perhaps I should have entered it in Motorpool class".
I am aware that judges will need to open the doors and hood of a vehicle for
judging. However, I do not see the need for a judge to rub his/her fingers
across a dent, when it is clearly visible to the naked eye. I make no claim
as an expert body man, but I have done some bodywork in my time. I know that
it is very common, while repairing a dent, to rub your fingers across it. It
helps you to feel the low and high areas. I do it every time I fix a dent.
I'm sure it is habitual for a life-long body man. In the case of a judged
competition, this habit needs to be controlled.
If my truck were painted semi-gloss, I might not be bothered by the
"laying of hands". Skin oils and smudges are easily cleaned off. The fact
that my truck is painted with CARC, makes it an issue for me. CARC scuffs
when rubbed with anything. It is hard enough, when you drive the truck
regularly, to keep the scuff marks off of the steps, doors, tool box door
and battery box door. I don't want to have those marks on my hood, cargo
body and fenders. Accidents will happen, but I would expect the judges to
know how rubbing a vehicle painted with CARC affects the appearance of the
paint. If they are not aware of this, they should realize it after they
touch it once. It is very obvious on a fresh paint job.
The issue of "perfection" was also raised. More specifically, the lack
of a need for it. I may be perceived as a "prima donna" by some list members
and that is fine. I merely want to keep my truck as nice as is humanly
possible. Since I drive my truck, I don't expect the underside to be
spotless. In fact, I thought I might lose points for it, but that does not
bother me. Nor do expect not to get bug splatter or road grime on it.
However, I do treat it like a show car. If that's not the way you treat
yours, fine.
Some of you insisted on making the argument that these trucks were "made
to be used", blah, blah, blah.... I tried to save you the energy by telling
you that I didn't expect you to understand. Maybe you did not read that
part? I don't climb on my fenders, although they were designed for it. I use
a ladder. I don't haul cargo in it, although it was designed for it. I don't
take it mudding, although it would handle that too. The Shelby Cobra and
Chrysler Hemi were designed to be raced. When is the last time you saw
someone flogging one? Despite what you may want say about dollar values, it
is the same thing. If you can afford the Cobra, you can afford to fix
whatever goes wrong. That doesn't seem to help get them all out on the race
track, does it?
I think that this is an important issue. If we want this hobby to grow,
we need to be mindful of how new members feel about this issue and others.
From what I understand, this hobby has been primarily driven by people who
use their vehicles as they were originally intended. They use the trucks for
re-enactment or parts hauling, farm work, etc... If I had another truck,
perhaps I would treat it that way, too. In fact, that would be fun. However,
the fact is that I don't own two trucks. I treat my truck like a show car
and I think people should respect that.
Apparently, there is a real need for vehicle judges at these shows. I
hope my comments don't discourage Mr. Mele and Mr. Wilson from continuing
their judging. I do hope that they take my criticism as constructive and are
more mindful in coming shows. The owners of vehicles need to be present at
the start of the judging to move the vehicle and operate lights, etc. If you
don't feel comfortable with some aspect of the judging process, such as
opening the hood of a vehicle, ask the owner to stay while you judge. I'm
sure they would be more than happy to accommodate you.
One final question. Since I was entered in the Restored 2.5-ton class,
and 2nd place went to a 5-ton (Ford M656), I assume that the class was
really 2.5-ton and up?
Thanks and I apologize again for the length,
--Neil
----- Original Message -----
From: "Janet A. Mele" <jamele@erols.com>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Saturday, June 01, 2002 8:47 PM
Subject: [MV] Judging at Churchville--Response to Amrhein
> >From George Mele, Crownsville, MD MVPA 10010
>
>
> Would like to respond to Mr Amrheins 31 May complaints about judging at
the
> Churchville/Aberdeen show. Bill Wilson and I are guilty of being the
judges
> mentioned in this email. We took a severe trashing in this posting that
> comes almost a month after the event. The judging booth was less than 50
> feet from Mr Amrheins display and we were there for several hours after
the
> judging, as was Phil Ulzheimer who was in charge of judging .There was
ample
> opportunity to air his complaints then instead of throwing it on the
> internet.
>
> A good deal of what Mr Amrhein says is true. I did rest a vinyl clipboard
> folder --with no protruding rivets on his bumper to score his vehicle.
Would
> have moved it in a New York microsecond if he complained. Bill Wilson did
> "lay hands " on his vehicle during his inspection--as is his normal
judging
> procedure based on eight years of judging experience. For information,
Bill
> Wilson has over 47 years experience in vehicle body repair and restoration
> and is considered a master craftsman. His restored armored vehicles have
> earned three national level best-in-class awards at MVPA Nationals. We
both
> spent two full days at the Ft. Lee MVPA National Convention watching the
> best of
> the MVPA judges dealing with restored class vehicles and have tried our
best
> to adhere to the national standard. A lot of touching goes on in
> judging--checking paint, welds, alignment,secure attachment, etc
> and I don't believe Bill took this to any extreme. He is invariably very
> fussy about NOT leaving any finger prints on a judged vehicle. He
habitually
> wipes his hand before touching paint and uses the heel and back of the
hand
> to determine the presence of careless welds, painted over rust, bad
repairs
> and bondo filler. On a restored vehicle points are lost for poor
restoration
> craftsmanship but not for a condition that might be an original
> manufacturing defect or shortcut. Bill was guilty of touching his vehicle
> again when he got down on the damp ground and dragged his 67-year old body
> under the truck to check for leaking seals and hydraulics and to check the
> condition of the drivetrain. I'm sure he put a big handprint on the bottom
> of the running board while trying to exit.
>
> I, too, had a restored class vehicle on display for three days and can
tell
> you that it was "touched" and climbed upon by many people. I used almost a
> full bottle of Windex to clean it up after greasy hands touched the paint.
> An event such as Churchville is an informal event where we show our
vehicles
> to the public and try to give them an education and feel for the hobby.
> Touching is a normal part of this sort of show.
>
>
> Now let me answer Amrhein's question about who won in the Post war 2 1/2
ton
> categories. Randy Emr won best restored with his 67 Kaiser M35. Second
> place went to Tom Bauer for a 69 Ford M656. Motor Pool first class went
to
> Lamar Rowland for his 83 AM General and second to Rick sacks for a 70
> Kaiser. Emr's vehicle also won best in show based on the votes of all of
> the judges and judging officials. This was a magnificent truck in all
> respects and set a very high standard for others to reach.
>
> One final thought---At last year's MVPA convention there was a real
problem
> in finding qualified people willing to be judges--more than a few stated
> they didnt want to put up with the flack any longer. Wonder why!!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Aug 16 2002 - 11:22:37 PDT