From: Bill Chambers (bchambers@hoovers.com)
Date: Mon Sep 09 2002 - 11:43:56 PDT
So, speaking of MV topics that went astray....
How are the auctions with GL doing?
Has this group ever produced a FAQ on what to do/not do at DRMO or other
govt auctions.
I am certain that most newbies have not concept of how to get started or
what to watch for.
regards,
regards,
Bill
'42 Phillips Heavy Weight
'38 Sunbeam Mark IV*
Military Bicycles
Millions served, Few remembered: not everyone had a jeep!
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Grammont [mailto:islander@midmaine.com]
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 11:11 AM
To: mil-veh@mil-veh.org
Subject: Re: [MV] Who's Vehicle is it? (was: Big Brother IS watching for
sure!)
Hi Jonathon,
>Yea but, try walking around in say Groom Lake NV and find out how fast your
>right to walk vanishes.
Incorrect. Your right to "walk" has not been removed or reduced at all.
What you have been prevented from doing is walking, crawling, running,
driving, flying, etc. in a restricted area. It is not the act of walking
that is being questioned, but where the walking is being conducted that
is. For example, you are not allowed to "walk" into my house uninvited,
but your right to "walk" is not the issue. You can still walk around
your cell after you are arrested, assuming that Mr. Beretta and his
friend 40 Cal hollow point haven't removed that ability :-) So your
right to "walk" remains completely intact. This is not the case with
driving. If you lose your license to drive you are not allowed to drive
under whatever conditions are imposed (life, 6 month suspension, etc.).
>Yes, but I specifically stated that I would like an example regarding the
>sale of personal property, not real property (land, buildings)
I think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. Personal
property *can* be as restrictive as anything else if the buyer agrees to
the seller's conditions. This is simple legal contract concept here.
The fact that nearly all personal property does NOT come with strings
attached is simply a function of that being the norm, not that there is
no way it can happen.
For years computer software has shipped with end user licenses forbidding
the resale of the materials. This has been an ongoing issue for
intellectual property items like software, music, etc. In fact, I just
checked my copy of Microsoft Office. It says, quite clearly, that I have
no right to resell it. So even if I wiped the product off my harddrive
and sold the whole thing to someone, this is (technically) illegal. If I
don't agree with that, then I am not allowed to buy the product. Plain
and simple. Just because it is rarely enforced doesn't mean that it
doesn't exist.
Now, as for your comments about full auto weapons.
>First of all you don't need a class 3 license to own an automatic weapon,
>only to pay a one time transfer tax. Second, they are not in fact banned,
>you can have them, they just regulate them under tax laws.
You are partially correct. It is not true that anybody can have such
weapons. *most* people can own a full automatic weapon if they are
allowed to (i.e. not a felon, under treatment for drugs, etc.) *and*
state and local laws don't prohibit it *and* it is "pre-ban" and
registered on the NFA list. If you are not legally allowed to purchase
the gun *or* the place you live forbids it *or* the gun is not on such a
list, you can not own such a weapon as Joe Average Citizen and will go to
jail for a very long time if you are caught with one.
You are also incorrect about the "ban". The importation of complete
machineguns is 100% illegal, so only those guns which were here prior to
the change in laws are grandfathered. Therefore the term "ban" is
completely correct. This is what we have to thank George Sr and the
Congress for back in '86. I can have any license I want and I can still
not import a functioning machinegun. Period. I can only import BATF
approved demiled parts. Period.
New machineguns can be made if you have a Class 2 license. However, you
technically do not own the right to keep any weapons you make and keep
under this license. You can only buy and resell such weapons to someone
having a C2 or (under some circumstances) a C3. This is regulated by law
and has nothing to do with taxation. Furthermore, as soon as you fail to
renue your C2 or C3, are refused renual, or have your rights to have such
a license revoked... you must either cut up or sell anything that was
made under a C2 license. So in effect you are only temporarily, and by
the grace of the laws (created by Congress and signed by the President)
which the BATF has been charged with enforcing, allowed to own such guns.
Steve
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