From: Fred Martin (mung@in-touch.net)
Date: Fri Jan 10 2003 - 11:45:28 PST
Well Stew....looks like you punched the wrong button and fired one of
those artillery pieces in your computer. (grin) I looked through the
listing that you posted and was surprised at the size of some of
them....the M65 at 11" and that M270 at 23.89". Whew! That must have
been railroad car stuff. Have to be crane or elevater loaded ammo huh?
How else would you carry ammo for that size gun? Maybe a coastal battery
for warding off the WW2 battleships. I thought I had heard of a 19"? gun
aboard Japanese warships as the largest. How many pieces of ammo could a
M35 carry for one of these bruisers? And ....picture the lathe that
bored out the barrel....it would not be made by a Harbor Freight
machine. I once saw a vertical lathe in the Brooklyn Naval ShipYard that
had a picture beside it that had 32 men lined up side by side on the
chuck. I sure hope that our abilities to manufacture don't go with away
like the jobs of today are. I have always considered this our backbone.
Fred
research66@MKTSurvey.net wrote:
> History channel is my fav. Will try to find that web site, my
> computer went down yesterday, and when they brought it back up, they
> "rearranged" all my favorites, and I lost my pers address book - they
> say they can restore it though, but do not know when they will get to
> it.
>
> Below is a list of arty pieces that I have put together from various
> sources; just got a burr under my saddle one day. I have a bigger
> list, but since computer went down, do not know if that file exists
> any more.
>
> Gun, Light, Towed, 6-Pdr M1841
>
> Rifle, Light Towed 3-inch (model no unk) (Civil War)
>
> Gun, Light Towed 6 Pdr (model no unk) Civil War)
>
> Gun, Light, Towed 3-inch (model no unk)
> (pre-WW I)
>
> Gun, Light, Towed, 75mm (French, model no unk) (WW I)
>
> Gun, Med, Towed 4.7 inch (model no unk) (pre-WW I)
>
> Howitzer, Pack, Towed 75mm M8
>
> Gun, Med, SP, 155mm M44
>
> Howitzer, Light, SP 105mm M52
>
> Gun, Med, SP 155mm M53
>
> Howitzer, Heavy, SP 8inch M55
>
> Gun, Med, Towed 155mm M59 ("Long Tom"
>
> Gun, Field, Motorized 280mm M65 (atomic gun)
>
> Howitzer, Light, Towed 105mm M101 series
>
> Howitzer, Light, Towed 105mm M102
>
> Gun, Heavy, SP 175mm M107
>
> Howitzer, Light, SP 105mm M108
>
> Howitzer, Medium, SP 155mm M109 series
>
> Howitzer, Heavy, SP 8 inch M110 series
>
> Howitzer, Medium, Towed 155mm M114 series
>
> Howitzer, Heavy, Towed 8 inch M115
>
> Howitzer, Light, Towed, 105mm M119
>
> Howitzer, Med, Towed, 155mm M198
>
> Howitzer, Med, Towed, 155mm XM777
>
> MLRS, SP 227mm M270 series
>
> MLRS, SP 607mm (ATAMS) M270 (modified) series
>
> Stew
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Martin [mailto:mung@in-touch.net]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 10:45 PM
> To: research66@MKTSurvey.net
> Subject: Re: [MV] USMC Armor Question
>
> Stew....whoop it on us. Maybe we can mask some of the potty mouthing
> going
>
> on....if we put on enough interesting posts of military related. Just
> saw on the
>
> History channel....a gun that fired a 19 1/2" ball 1400 yards. It was
> an old
>
> cannon....like to see more about it. How about that foundry pour?
> Fred
>
> research66@MKTSurvey.net wrote:
>
> > Fred,
>
> > Glad to have been some help. Discovered a web site yesterday, I
> saved it,
>
> > will find it tomorrow if you'd like Guns 102.
>
> > Semper Fi,
>
> > Stew
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Fred Martin [mailto:mung@in-touch.net]
>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 2:21 PM
>
> > To: research66@MKTSurvey.net
>
> > Subject: Re: [MV] USMC Armor Question
>
> >
>
> > Mr. Rayfield....I thank you for the excellent talk on the heavy guns
> of our
>
> > military....and as far as your comment about what I already
> knew....I have
>
> > been
>
> > through artillery 101....you just put me through it. Fred
>
> >
>
> > research66@MKTSurvey.net wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Mr. Fred Martin:
>
> > > After the howitzer is backed onto its spade for stability, the XO
> of the
>
> > > battery is out front with an Aiming Circle (looks like one of the
>
> > > instruments a surveyor uses), all of the howitzers "lay" their
> sights onto
>
> > > him; the reconcile the differences until they are zeroed in, at
> which time
>
> > > the piece is laid. At that time, the gunner, who's howitzer has
> just been
>
> > > laid, sights in on am aiming stake (red and white metal pole).
> All the
>
> > > howitzers in the battery do this. When all are done, the battery
> is laid.
>
> > > When the Fire Direction Center (FDC) sends down a fire mission, he
> will
>
> > give
>
> > > the commands "Fire Mission! Battery adjust, Base Piece, one
> round, shell
>
> > > HE, Fuze Quick, Deflection 1388, Quadrant 343; 2 rounds HE in
> effect!"
>
> > This
>
> > > means that the howitzers will all adjust while one of the guns
> designated
>
> > > base piece fires to adjust the firing data onto the target. A
> forward
>
> > > observer will be calling back adjustments (left, right; up, down;
> add,
>
> > drop)
>
> > > which are computed into mils (there are 3600 in a circle) and
> transferred
>
> > > down to the guns via wire. When this happens, the deflection
> (horizontal)
>
> > > is measured my sighting on the aiming stakes, and vertical is by
> leveling
>
> > > bubbles and recheck with a gunners quadrant leveling more
> bubbles. Then
>
> > the
>
> > > round is fired. When several rounds are fired by the base piece -
> over,
>
> > > short, over, then on, then "Fire-for-Effect" is then ordered at
> which time
>
> > > the entire battery, which has been adjusting the whole time on
> their
>
> > sights,
>
> > > loads two rounds of HE (High Explosive) with Quick-firing fuzes
> (impact)
>
> > and
>
> > > fires. End of mission. This is the basic fire mission.
>
> > >
>
> > > This is totally different from the way it is done aboard ship.
> There are
>
> > no
>
> > > aiming stakes. Ships use optical range finders and radar range
> finders.
>
> > > Optical range finders focus two prisms on each side of a turret
> until it
>
> > is
>
> > > focused on the target, at the focal point the range is read which
> equates
>
> > to
>
> > > an elevation of the guns. Range is determined by elevation (range
> to
>
> > focal
>
> > > point) and a certain number of bags of power loaded into the
> breach behind
>
> > > the projectile. There are two types of projectiles - HC (high
> capacity)
>
> > and
>
> > > AP (armor piercing). This applies to separate loading 8-inch and
> higher.
>
> > > Then there is semi fixed ammo (newer 8 in, 6 in and all older 5
> in) which
>
> > > the projectile is mated to a brass cartridge and then loaded; then
> fixed
>
> > > ammo where the projectile is already mated in the box to its
> projectile.
>
> > >
>
> > > The typical commands to fire are "Main Battery, nine guns, one
> salvo, AP,
>
> > > load! The gunners are adjusting the guns to range, Range is called
> out
>
> > from
>
> > > the director to plot, which then computes the direction in degrees
> (Navy
>
> > > guns shoot by degrees, not mils);
>
> > > "Direction 090, Range 36,000 yards" The individual gunners report
> gun #_
>
> > > ready, etc to the turret captain, the turret captain reports to
> Main
>
> > Battery
>
> > > Plot, and the triggers are pressed. The guns can be fired from
> the
>
> > conning
>
> > > tower, main battery plot or the turret itself.
>
> > >
>
> > > This is all I can remember from memory, a lot of it is abbreviated
> because
>
> > I
>
> > > do not know how much you already know, nor do I know how much I
> remember.
>
> > > Shooting heavy stuff from land or sea is entirely different.
> Modern guns
>
> > > which are limited to either the 5 in 54 cal Mk 45 Mod 2/3 and the
> newer 5
>
> > > inch 62cal Mk 45 mod 4 shoot from radar direction, there are fewer
>
> > commands
>
> > > and the mounts are unmanned and remotely controlled. They shoot
> only
>
> > fixed
>
> > > ammunition.
>
> > > Hope this helps.
>
> > >
>
> > > S/F,
>
> > > Stew Rayfield
>
> > > Maj USMC (Ret)
>
> > > -----Original Message-----
>
> > > From: Fred Martin [mailto:mung@in-touch.net]
>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 3:14 PM
>
> > > To: mil-veh@mil-veh.org
>
> > > Subject: Re: [MV] USMC Armor Question
>
> > >
>
> > > Keith, After seeing it from a URL that was posted....I am curious
> as to
>
> > how
>
> > > the right to left or windage was controled on the M110. I realize
> that the
>
> > > barrel can be raised or lowered for the elevation....but with it
> backed up
>
> > > on
>
> > > the spade....how was this accomplished? Bearing in mind that 1
> degree at
>
> > 18
>
> > > miles would be a considerable amount....but I never understood the
> fire
>
> > > control
>
> > > system onboard navy ships either. When aiming at a barrel on a
> deserted
>
> > > island
>
> > > probably a few thousand yards away....the ship would rock back and
> forth
>
> > but
>
> > > the barrel would stay put. Fred
>
> > >
>
> > > Keith Byrd wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > > Fred,
>
> > > > That you have described sounds like a self propelled 8
> in.
>
> > > > howitzer. The dozer blade on the back is a recoil spade. It is
> lowered
>
> > > into
>
> > > > the ground to keep the carriage (vehicle) from rolling backward
> when
>
> > > fired.
>
> > > > I believe there may have been a few nuke projectiles made for
> them.
>
> > > > I recently had a friend who sold one to the Littlefield
> collection.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Keith
>
> > > >
>
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > > From: Fred Martin <mung@in-touch.net>
>
> > > > To: Military Vehicles Mailing List <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2003 11:22 AM
>
> > > > Subject: [MV] USMC Armor Question
>
> > > >
>
> > > > > While attached to a dock landing ship and in the far east in
> the 59/60
>
> > > > > era....we loaded a marine outfit at Buckner Bay, Okinawa and
> hauled
>
> > them
>
> > > > > to Yokosuka, Japan for R&R. When arriving there we were
> informed by
>
> > the
>
> > > > > Japanese government that we couldn't bring them into Japan
> because the
>
> > > > > (2?) tanks in the welldeck were capable of firing an atomic
> round.
>
> > > > > (probably treaty stuff) I personally went up on deck and
> looked at
>
> > what
>
> > > > > we were carrying. I seen a tank that had a (what looked like a
> dozer
>
> > > > > blade on the back) and a main gun that looked to be in the
> range of 8
>
> > or
>
> > > > > 9" bore. Also, I noticed that on one barrel it said "Terrible
> Tony".
>
> > > > > Does anyone know anything about these? We took the marine
> outfit to
>
> > > > > Subic Bay, Phillipines....way better liberty....plus San
> Miguel beer.
>
> > > > > grin While underway...I heard two marines talking about if
> the ship
>
> > > > > went down and they were in a lifeboat....what would you wish
> for? One
>
> > > > > spoke up and said "Make the ocean turn into beer". The other
> one said
>
> > > > > "you dumba$$....we'd have to pee in the boat!" Fred
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
>
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>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
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