Re: [MV] Ambulance Drivers or Medics...

From: Steve & Jeanne Keith (
Date: Tue Feb 11 2003 - 08:51:01 PST

Like I tell people when they joke about "Military Intelligence" being
an oxymoron. I explain that Military Intelligence is why you are NOT
speaking German today.....

Steve AKA Dr Deuce

PS: Thanks to everyone about the 48 start flags!

----- Original Message -----
From: "J Travis" <>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <>
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [MV] Ambulance Drivers or Medics...

> John,
> You're welcome about the support, and I know that on a serious note you
> are quite right about the difference. And yes, from the MBA
> perspective, the same narrow point of view by the public applies- you
> mention having one nowadays to Joe Q. Public, and the first word out of
> their mouth is likely to be a crack about Enron or some such, and "all
> you greedy, crooked bastards". But you know what? That's Allll Right...
> 'Cause the way I see it, those that have a grasp of what truly goes into
> either profession know better, and the comments of those who don't are
> usually best just shrugged off, with the knowledge that yeah; that's
> real funny. I'll remind them to keep laughing next time its them
> wrapped around the tree yelling "Help me!" and "oh, it HURTS!", or
> praying someone can reopen the local factory so they can get a job and
> get to keep their family's house, cars, etc. And with THAT outlook on
> it, then their criticisms are seen for just what they are- those who
> can't (or won't), casting aspirsions at those who do (or at least try,
> even)- and as such, are not worthy of getting upset over. Like the old
> saying goes, "Don't blame the crocodile for eating your baby; it's the
> nature of crocodiles to do so." Some people are simply like crocodiles;
> tiny brains and all mouth. And all jokes aside, those of us who are
> aware of what goes into being a Paramedic are grateful for those willing
> to take on the task for the rest of us- regardless of whatever name the
> rest of the herd refers to them by.
> Jay
> John Seidts wrote:
> >Jay,
> > Flame off. Thanks for the support. Problem is, as you know,
> >people think about common phrases in our lexicon, like ambulance driver,
> >MBA, certain assumptions are made which really discredit the effort and
> >substance behind such titles. Those who pay for such important services
> >EMS and financial planning should know what they are getting. Most
> >paramedics have come to really resent the title "ambulance driver"
> >it connotates somebody like Bill Cosby showing up with beer on his breath
> >drag you down the stairs and to the hospital and denigrates the
> >because of the negative images. Same as the jokes in my fraternity,
> >was primarily made up of Chemical Engineering types, about MBA's. I've
> >helped a friend's wife work on papers she wrote when she was doing her
> >and her work was interesting and challenging- glad I'm not doing it. The
> >Russian and Physics are hard enough.
> > Since we occupy a more conspicuous role in daily life, and come
> >under more pressure, the little things bother us more than before. We
> >really don't have an effective means to change public use of the term
> >"ambulance driver," and have many more important public health issues
> >are much more crucial to deal with, like smoking, low fat diets, and
> >encouraging exercise; even here, we don't have much success in changing
> >public opinion, let alone habits.
> > So once in a while, our opinion of the world we work in festers
> >comes out like my diatribe and Hank's response. It is not because we are
> >high strung, burn outs who deal with death and critical issues every day.
> >In fact, many of our transports are really just drives to the hospital.
> >characterizing our profession with a small portion of our work is pretty
> >demeaning. It's like calling an astronaut a "space ship driver", or a
> >firefighter a "fire truck driver." Most of us prefer to be called
> >or "Paramedics."
> > Another little story, from when I was working with a commercial
> >transport service, moving people in ambulances between hospitals and
> >homes. My partner and I were loading an 80 year old guy on the ambulance
> >when one of us slipped on the ice, banging the stretcher on the
> >This old guy looked up, with a foggy expression, straight at me, and
> >"Ya wasn't in the Medics, was ya." He then laid his head down, and said
> >almost embarassed and offered, "You's guys are probably just Ambulance
> >Drivers anyway."
> > I didn't really understand what that meant until I met one of the
> >WC54 drivers later, and he explained to me how the ambulance systems
> >in WWII. So in WWII, veterans knew how to distinguish between those who
> >cared for them, the medics, and those who transported them, the ambulance
> >drivers. All Paramedics and EMT's want is the distinction of our true
> >from the truck we ride on. I think the title Medic is well earned.
> > In lots of municipal fire services which run paramedic staffed
> >ambulances, paramedics are hired and must go through fire training to
> >on the ambulance. Lots of law suits, pay differences, and federal
> >regulations later, most of these services persist in titling their
> >"paramedics" as "firefighter/paramedics" even though we spend 99.9% of
> >time working as "medics," not firefighters and several court cases have
> >established that legally. More of the same stuff.
> > This information here is not to flame Jay; his support is
> >appreciated and his comments about humor right on. But hopefully, those
> >educated here on the list by us will kindly refer to us as "Paramedics,"
> >"Medics," and have some idea of why you might get a cold stare and a
> >suddenly less than 100% cheerful paramedic when you call him or her an
> >"ambulance driver."
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "J Travis" <>
> >To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <>
> >Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 10:17 AM
> >Subject: Re: [MV] M728 question - mechanical (Flame)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>Henry,
> >>
> >>It seems I owe you an apology, and fair enough, but I'm somewhat
> >>surprised. Probably a little over half my friends off-list are either
> >>Paramedics, EMTs, or RNs, and to a one of them, you're the first
> >>Paramedic I've ever seen that can't seem to tell the difference between
> >>a JOKE and being serious. As for the comment itself, it was a line from
> >>one of Bill Cosby's comedy routines back in the 1960s, off a record
> >>called "200 M.P.H". And considering it was made following a comment
> >>about the idea of someone on the list being crazy enough to attempt
> >>riding a creeper underneath a moving truck until said truck stops short,
> >>sending them careening into the shop wall ala something out of a Wile E
> >>Coyote/Roadrunner cartoon (which I presume no one on this list is crazy
> >>enough to actually attempt in the first place; I give you guys more
> >>credit than that), I would have thought it obvious that my reply was
> >>intended in a joking manner; NOT as serious commentary about either the
> >>profession or safety gear in general. And knowing how most of my
> >>friends in that profession find that humor is sometimes the best release
> >>for the stress of having to deal with the carnage left over every time
> >>Joe Q. Public finds some new and novel method of testing Darwinism in
> >>practice, I have picked up their habits of dealing with the matter with
> >>the same dark sense of humor when discussing it with them. So THAT'S
> >>what reminded me of the remark in the first place.
> >>
> >>And with all that said and explained, if I offended you and anyone else
> >>on the list, I DO apologize. That was NOT my intention, as it wasn't
> >>meant to be taken as anything but a humorous response. And I am quite
> >>aware of the depth of study that goes into that profession, as I helped
> >>one of my closest friends from High School who had dropped out to first
> >>study for his GED and pass it, then also to go on to the UAB program for
> >>his EMT and eventually his Paramedic ratings. I even volunteered to use
> >>my own field of expertise (an MBA in finance) to help a local county
> >>rescue squad with some of their budget issues, because I wanted to show
> >>a little appreciation for what they do for their community.
> >>
> >>So if you want to get into a SERIOUS discussion about my views of
> >>Paramedics, fine. I think they are underpaid as a rule for the risks
> >>they take, I think they are finding the job even tougher as many of in
> >>mangement seek to cut costs by running two EMT-IVs (at lower pay rates)
> >>and auto-difibulators, and I think that this is going to hurt the rest
> >>of us in the long run, as it limits the options of treatments on-scene
> >>if transport is delayed. I also think that anybody who can deal with
> >>bouncing between the highs of saving a patient to the lows of watching
> >>others die in front of them every day, and not let it get to them,
> >>deserves both my respect, and an escape valve to deal with the stress-
> >>like the aforementioned dark sense of humor. Personally, I doubt I
> >>could ever do that job without one myself.
> >>
> >>So anyway, as I said, I do apologize for offending you and anyone else.
> >>
> >>Jay Travis
> >>-Who still has his Class "F" endorsement on his TDL from 1994, aquired
> >>for a job as none other than as- you guessed it- an Ambulance Driver,
> >>until the job (a private service) chose to hire only EMTs. Go figure,
> >>
> >>
> >huh?
> >
> >
> >>Henry J. Fackovec wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Dear "Jay"
> >>>
> >>>That's it, I am sick of the garbage that is spread here.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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> >To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <>
> >To reach a human, contact <>
> >
> >
> >
> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <>
> To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <>
> To reach a human, contact <>

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