From: Robert Ternes (racecadet@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Jul 12 2004 - 09:08:27 PDT
Howdy Rob,
The database is down this morning and so here's some
of my knowledge I have about Jeeps and axles in
general. I was going to reply to you only, but this
might be some useful information for the rest of the
list as well.
First off, don't confuse the idea of a "hub" with that
of a bolt pattern. Your "stud hub pattern" is really
the "bolt pattern" or "lug pattern". It's a bit of
terminology that you'll need to have if you ever want
to call someone and discuss this with any measure of
success. Lug patterns are generally expressed as "X on
Y inches" (mm patterns for the rest of the world),
like 5 on 5.5" for the CJ wheels, or 5 on 4.5 for
later model 1/4T civvy Jeeps (generally anything from
late 80's on, including square headlight Jeeps). For
instance, the rockwells under 2.5 tons have a 6 on
8.75". Finally, I don't know if any of the DJ axles
every came with 4 lug pattern - I thought they all had
the CJ 5 lug pattern. Search on how to measure your
lug pattern - 5 lug and 7 lug patterns (new 3/4T Ford
axles come to mind) are measured not from opposing lug
to opposing lug but from one lug to a line between the
two opposing lugs.
A Hub is something completely different. Generally
speaking, the hub on a vehicle is something that
contains at least two bearings and is capable of
entirely supporting the load of the wheel and tire
(well, it's really the weight of the vehicle on that
tire, but you get the picture). A hub is found on the
front axle, since all turning fronts are defacto full
floating axles, meaning that the hub on the front
supports all vehicle weight and the axle shaft is
simply there for motive power (even though in some
hubs, especially late model jeep hubs, the outer
"stub" shaft also serves as a fastener to physically
hold the hub together, which is why it has a hub NUT
threaded onto the axle shaft). Look for hubs on front
axles both drive and steer, and on rear axles with the
full floating configuration. There is copious
information about this on the net. Search and ye shall
find.
Before I go on, I don't know quite what you're trying
to accomplish and to be honest it's probably beyond
the scope of my advocacy to even do so, but before you
go swapping axles around, think about track width and
gearing. It's one thing to just get the wheels to fit,
but you generally speaking never want the rear of a
single rear wheel vehicle to be wider than the front,
since this causes handling problems. Next, know your
gearing and search for suitable axle donors with that
in mind.
Now, all of that said, there are a few standard ways
to convert the bolt pattern on your axles.
1. On a semifloating rear, redrill the axle flanges
This generally is a very effective way to convert,
since you are not changing track width on the axle,
measured WMS-WMS (Wheel Mounting Surface to Wheel
Mounting Surface). Considerations:
· Sometimes the pilot bore needs to be turned down a
bit to be smaller than that of your wheels
· The diameter of some semifloating axle flanges is
simply not big enough to take a bigger bolt pattern,
so generally this method works best when downsizing
pattern (say, taking the ubiquitous 5 on 5.5 Ford 9"
from an F150 to a smaller 5 on 4.5" or 5" lug
pattern).
2. On a FullFloat hub (front or rear), either redrill
the hub as above or run wheel adapters. Performance
Wheel and Tire here in Englewood has these.
Review with pictures:
http://www.off-road.com/chevy/reviews/spacers/
Actual product page:
http://www.performancewheel.com/Index_Adapt.cfm
3. Now, one very cool thing I just did on a 14 bolt
(think M1008) rear end is to chuck up the hub on a
lathe and turn it down to fit a 5 on 5.5 bolt pattern.
There's just enough meat on this to do it if you also
open up the wheel a bit. I mated this to a Dana 60
centersection with some 1.5" alloy FF shafts - I'd say
that this axle probably could take somewhere in the
neighborhood of 8000 lbs of peak force, assuming I
don't shear the studs first. At any rate, this is
above and beyond the subject of picking up junkyard
rear ends for $30, but still one final option for some
axles and I include it here for completeness.
Anyway, as you can see by my sig, I sort of do this
stuff alot as a hobby (white collar on the clock,
black collar off the clock), and if I've learned
anything, it's to choose the appropriate donor, trying
best to match the following criteria in order of
priority:
· WMS width and differential location (always nš1
priorities, tough to change and only done so when an
available axle does not offer that configuration
stock)
· Bolt pattern
· Gearing
· Mounting pattern
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Bob Ternes
Boulder, CO
1968 M35a2, hurting for a DT 466 and regeared spicer
1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee, "7/8 ton" drivetrain
1979 K25, soon to be riding on m35 axles and 16r20's
--- aussierob <aussierob2@odyssey.net> wrote:
> Hello Good Jeepin buddies, it's Aussie Rob
> here from Syracuse, NY area.
>
> My problem starts here.
> I have a great set of wheels/tires that I had
> put 600 miles since new. They fit the standard
> early CJ hubs with the normal larger Diameter
> centers.
>
> I have 2 sets of Axles - for Postal Jeeps (I
> believe)
> Both sets are from a 2Wh Drive setup.
> Both, use the smaller diameter hubs
> One set is the later postal Jeep 5 stud 14 inch
> rims.
> and the other is the earlier DJ - 4 stud hubs/axles
>
> I quite certain that the two sets are Postal jeep
> axles.
> One set I saw come of a postal jeep with my own
> eyes.
>
> However, I would like to see any info on where to
> get,
> steal, buy or borrow, ANY Wheel adapters...
> to allow the use of my larger diameter older style
> wheels
> MB or Cj2a or CJ3 or Cj5
>
> I am writing to all message boards that I'm aware
> of.
> So, don't be thinking I'm one of those devilish
> renegade
> lurkers that only pops up when I need something...
> even
> if it's true !
>
> By the way, I have a new batch of T-90 Rebuild VHS
> tapes
> just made up if anyone could use one. At $13.50
>
> Best e'gards, email: aussierob2@odyssey.net
> Robbo
> At the Sheep Dip Cafe & Do Drop Inn
> & Jeep Ewe'porium
>
> Featuring:
> Too many early jeeps hidden away in the woods
> from the local Code officer - who's name is,
> Officer Bastard.
> Some of you may actually know his brothers who
> may have actually moved to your area !
>
>
>
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