From: Robert Ternes (racecadet@yahoo.com)
Date: Mon Jul 12 2004 - 12:01:25 PDT
Alex,
BTW, .85 is what Boyce has as well:
http://www.boyceequipment.com/tranies.html
My customer database at work is still dead in the
water this morning, so here's my thoughts on the deuce
repower.
I have been looking long and hard at a repower on the
M35a2. I love the vehicle, the bed, the axles and xfer
case, the bed, the cab, everything about the vehicle
except for the lumbering Shrek under the hood and his
6 sick inline squirrels. 134 HP is KILLING me. And
yes, I should have listened to the advice and just
purchased a civvy truck, but man oh man, the deuce was
just too cool to pass up, although if I can't make it
go faster (especially up hills), then it's impossible
for me to justify keeping it. From what people have
told me, the 5 ton mods to the engine won't glean
enough power and will reduce the longevity of the
engine. When I look at my sunk cost, the resale value,
and the additional cost of a repower as well as the
cost of a comparable haul rig already equipped, I can
just BARELY justify the premium cost imposed by a
repower in light of alternatives.
Especially after seeing Tom "Fastest's" Millenium REO,
the wheels started spinning. Alot of people are
scratching their heads on that buildup, but for me,
it's a buildup at its finest. I've been building what
you could basically call vehicular chimeras (very
hybridized creations) for maybe 8 years now, and his
build is really clean and you can tell he put some
time and care into it. The frame off resto he did is
pretty hardcore and speaks more to the mil resto
crowd, but I see the utility in his drivetrain mods,
and fits my bill perfectly for an on/offroad haul
vehicle with my other vehicles in mind. Of course,
practicality is in the eye of the beholder, but the
idea is there. :)
Tom (I hope the secrets of his buildup are no secret)
used a Caterpillar 3208 mated to a spicer 6052 tranny.
As much as I like the 3208 on paper for flatland duty,
I live at altitude, and will be taking my deuce over
10k ft regularly, and so I really wanted a Turbo
engine over a NA model. I've been looking at the IH
DT-466 as a really solid replacement for the Herc mill
under the hood. Here are some spec sheets for the NEW
466, which is an evolved species of the old mechanical
version but still the same species:
http://www.internationaldelivers.com/assets/pdf/466_570_Bro_SINGLE.pdf?src=1
http://www.goodmantruck.com/My%20Zips/dt466dt530brochure.pdf
So, work out the engine and shoot for 210-225,250 HP
whatever. With the expansive real estate under the
deuce hood, it should be no big deal to shoehorn a big
mill under there with the appropriate exhaust and body
mods. From my research, both the C3208 and the DT466
have an SAE nš2 bellhousing bolt pattern.
Now, on the option of the tranny, Tom used a Spicer
6052 with a gear swap to get the ultra high OD (very
low, numerically). I independantly got suggested the
Spicer 6-thou-series trannies by a friend who does
tranny salvage, although he suggested another actual
model (one that has a low gear stock). After calling
him back about swapping the gears on the 6052 (which
seems to be a very prevalent gearbox), the same friend
also mentioned that it would be relatively easy (well,
for a total motorhead like me) to swap the 5th gear to
a low, low .69 (same as Tom did).
I've since found the "suffix" list for the gearing on
the different models of the 6052 gearboxes, and since
we'll be swapping the 5th out, I looked for the suffix
with the highest ratio 4th gear:
A RATIO
1ST-7.28,2ND-4.09,3RD-2.41,4TH-1.44,5TH-1.00,REV-7.28
B RATIO
1ST-7.28,2ND-4.38,3RD-2.71,4TH-1.61,5TH-1.00,REV-7.28
C RATIO
1ST-6.68,2ND-3.52,3RD-1.97,4TH-1.17,5TH-1.00,REV-6.68
D RATIO
1ST-7.28,2ND-4.09,3RD-2.28,4TH-1.28,5TH-1.00,REV-7.28
It looks like the 6052C is going to be the best donor.
Just this very morning, I was quoted $900 for a good
used takeout for one of these, which did originally
come behind a 3208.
Welp, I just got word that the server motherboard is
back up, so I'll leave you with this. Hopefully it's
good enough information. For reference, I am also
considering power steering (maybe with a stronger
draglink, though!), and as Tom did, upgraded brakes.
I've added both on light ton vehicles, but these
medium duty beasts are a new ball of wax.
By the way, anyone want to buy a late 80's Herc turbo
Multifuel and the matching tranny? I'm dead serious.
If I could get a resale offer on this, it would really
speed up the process. I mean, the process of me
wasting more money on a bodge up that I still need to
find a way to put a stereo in. :)
Ok, haven't sent this yet, but some final thoughts:
I've done some quick back of the envelope calcs for
the repower, and if the .85 ratio is correct as the
final drive ratio for the stock deuce 5th gear, then
with a .69 OD, you have a theoretical top speed of
73mph at 2600rpm (and a whole lot more oomph on
hills). Do a 42" wheel mod (either 11r20 or more like
9- or 10r22.5), and you jump up to a theoretical top
speed of 80mph! :) That's as compelling as fabricating
an internal cab rollcage for the deuce out of
1.75x.180 and laying on enough dynamat to muffle the
sound of a bomb blast. :)
Finally, I hauled a whole bunch of tire jobs to the
tire store on Saturday for me and some friends.
There's something about a rig you can put over 15 35"+
offroad tires in the bed of. :)
Cheers
Bob Ternes
Currently recampaigning for Neighbor of the Year,
Boulder CO
1968 M35A2
--- Alex <alex@glx.net> wrote:
>
>
> Bjorn,
> OK... I'm a little confused... I looked in the
> manual you referenced
> below and it had the numbers you posted... (thanks
> for citing the
> reference). BUT the site,
> http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/transmission.htm, and
> some other folks
> that replied had these numbers
>
> 6.00, 3.31, 1.89, 1.00, .85, and 5.90 (reverse)
>
> Any idea's why the discrepancy?
>
> OK... why do I even ask these questions... I'm sure
> this will generate
> some discussions. If, the engine and/or transmission
> in the truck I'll
> be bringing home (yes, I'm having it towed by the
> pros)is/are toast, I'm
> considering (just considering at this time for you
> purists)a possible
> heart/lung (engine/transmission) transplant. So if I
> could find the
> right donor (200hp, (or better) 300 ft-lb (or
> better), 2600-3000rpm
> engine/transmission (possibly automatic?).... ??? Am
> thinking too far
> outside the box?? So, why, again am I considering
> this? I know there'll
> be issues with the air system, etc. But won't it be
> more docile, easier
> to drive, easier to start in COLD weather
> (Nebraska), and more
> maintainable?
>
> Alex
> PS The thing has one of those air assist power
> steering units on it. I
> told my wife, but it didn't seem to make her any
> happier.
>
> PPS all of this is academic if my wife makes me sell
> it.... :(
> Since I did buy it without her permission. :((
> Aren't the online
> auctions great. You can get into trouble without
> even leaving your
> office!
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Military Vehicles Mailing List
> [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org] On
> Behalf Of Bjorn Brandstedt
> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 11:38 AM
> To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [MV] An off the wall question...
> Transmission gear ratios
> for M35A2
>
> FYI:
> If you like, you can download the transmission
> manual from the logsa
> site
> (TM 9-2520-246-34).
> The ratios for Spicer 3053A are shown on page 44,
> 5.02,2.78,1.62, 1 and
> 0.79.
> Bjorn
>
>
> >From: "Alex" <alex@glx.net>
> >To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List"
> <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> >Subject: Re: [MV] An off the wall question...
> Transmission gear ratios
> for
> >M35A2
> >Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 02:25:27 -0500
> >
> >Wait... I just found a reference that says the
> transmission is a Spicer
> >3053A. This link gives the ratios...
> >http://www.garbee.net/~cabell/transmission.htm
> >is this information correct?
> >
> >Alex
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Military Vehicles Mailing List
> [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org] On
> >Behalf Of Alex
> >Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2004 2:09 AM
> >To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
> >Subject: [MV] An off the wall question...
> Transmission gear ratios for
> >M35A2
> >
> >Does anyone have the ratios for the M35A2
> transmission? If so, where
> the
> >heck did you ever find them?
> >Thanks,
> >Alex
> >
> >
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