From: Dan Maguire (dmaguire@mchsi.com)
Date: Sat Nov 20 2004 - 13:41:13 PST
A live auction *is* open to millions. Only a small percentage show up.
Ebay auctions are also open to millions. It is easier for them to
show up but only a small percentage do. It may be more people than with
a live auction, but no different.
The suggestion seems to be that collusion is right or wrong based on the
number of other people that may or may not be participating - a number
that nobody has any knowledge of or control over. That is a very weak
argument, IMHO.
That few bidders may likely be the only bidding pool you got. Just
because there are millions of people registered on Ebay doesn't mean
that they are show up for a auction. I rarely see more than a dozen
bids for any one item. And if those dozen are working together, it
isn't an auction any more.
Dan
Alan R Wise wrote:
> You are still wrong. And how many live auctions I've attended has nothing to
> do with it. I'm NOT talking about live auctions. Geez. Lets try this again,
> shall we? EBay is open to millions. A few bidders working together might be
> unethical, but as long as MILLIONS are still able to bid- no one being
> excluded- it is NOT illegal. A live auction has a limited number of bidders;
> different situation and not comparable to eBay.
>
>
>
> on 11/20/04 11:21 AM, JEFF HAIN-MATSON at flmv@flmv.net wrote:
>
>
>>No, it is not apples and oranges, collusive bidding is collusive bidding. Any
>>time 2
>>or more people agree not to "run each other up" it is collusion. Any time 2 or
>>more
>>people agree to "split a lot" with out disclosing at the registration that
>>they are
>>bidding together it is collusion. This applies to any auction, not just the
>>DRMS
>>auctions. It doesn't matter if there are 5 people or 5000 people bidding. (by
>>the
>>way, the drms auctions in question had on average 150 to 200 people
>>registered, so
>>there were plenty of other potentially interested parties at the sales)
>>
>>To bring it home to you, if you list a widget on ebay that 5 people would be
>>the
>>most interested in and they get together and don't bid against each other for
>>it,
>>you will not get very much money, why, because of collusion!!!!
>>
>>Collusive bidding or bid rigging is illegal, and watched for buy private
>>auctioneers
>>all the time. You must not go to very many live auctions.
>>
>>Why do you think Government Liquidation makes it so hard to see who you are
>>bidding
>>against??? You might drop out if you thought it was against a fellow
>>collector......
>>
>>
>>
>>Alan R Wise wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What you are discussing is apples and oranges. Collusive bidding in regards
>>>to a federal DRMO auction is not the same- or even close- to eBay. The eBay
>>>activity is still open to millions of other bidders, as well as being a
>>>private company. It is certainly NOT illegal by any stretch. No matter what
>>>a small group of folks do, a million people are still able to bid on any
>>>item at any time.
>>>
>>>on 11/20/04 10:20 AM, JEFF HAIN-MATSON at flmv@flmv.net wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>correct, what you are doing is illegal!! it is collusive bidding, and i bet
>>>>if
>>>>these other people are in different states, the FBI would be involved. not
>>>>a
>>>>pretty picture.
>>>>
>>>>Steve Grammont wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Wow... I have "cease fire" arrangements with probably a dozen fellow
>>>>>eBayers so we don't wind up killing each other over items of mutual
>>>>>interest. Instead we email each other and see if other arrangements can
>>>>>be made. Guess I should be looking over my shoulder for some DA looking
>>>>>to make a name for himself :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>for everybody's information:
>>>>>>The below link should also include the same cases against the top 20
>>>>>>people
>>>>>>buying surplus at the time on the east coast. A new U.S. attorney out of
>>>>>>Philadelphia was trying to make a name for himself, convinced that there
>>>>>>had
>>>>>>to be collusive bidding since the acquisition cost vs. the sale price of
>>>>>>tractor trailer sized lots was so big. Several dealers pled guilty
>>>>>>(Sarafan
>>>>>>was not one as far as i know). the charges were dropped eventually against
>>>>>>the rest, and the new U.S. attorney was fired for wasting lots of taxpayer
>>>>>>money on what was found to be a non issue!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>m35products wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/sarafa0.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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>>>>>>>To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--
>>>>>>JEFF HAIN-MATSON
>>>>>>FRONT LINE MILITARY VEHICLES WEB SITE: http://www.flmv.net/
>>>>>>WRIGHTSVILLE PA
>>>>>>717-252-4489 VOICE
>>>>>>717-252-4499 FAX
>>>>>>flmv@flmv.net E-MAIL
>>>>>>MVPA #1833
>>>>>>IMPS #1726
>>>>>>MVT #9362
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>>>>>>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>>>>>>To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
>>>>>>To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>JEFF HAIN-MATSON
>>>>FRONT LINE MILITARY VEHICLES WEB SITE: http://www.flmv.net/
>>>>WRIGHTSVILLE PA
>>>>717-252-4489 VOICE
>>>>717-252-4499 FAX
>>>>flmv@flmv.net E-MAIL
>>>>MVPA #1833
>>>>IMPS #1726
>>>>MVT #9362
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
>>>>To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
>>>>To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
>>>>To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
>>
>>--
>>JEFF HAIN-MATSON
>>FRONT LINE MILITARY VEHICLES WEB SITE: http://www.flmv.net/
>>WRIGHTSVILLE PA
>>717-252-4489 VOICE
>>717-252-4499 FAX
>>flmv@flmv.net E-MAIL
>>MVPA #1833
>>IMPS #1726
>>MVT #9362
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
> To unsubscribe, send e-mail to: <mil-veh-off@mil-veh.org>
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>
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