From: aussierob (aussierob2@odyssey.net)
Date: Sun Jan 02 2005 - 09:19:35 PST
Firstly I'm mainly a lurker here for a few years now, after some
pissy purist/s did not like my style of message writing.
...and for that I make no apologies ...then or now!
But I digress...
Hello Mike It's Aussie Robb here ...aka
Old Jeep Breath
That Aussie bastard
Robbo at the Sheep Dip Cafe' & Jeep Ewe'porium
Upstate NY area near Syracuse
In reply to your question are there any Quick Fixes?
Yes and No ...because you'll need to perform
more troubleshooting .
Let's back up at little... from the UK, Noel, from across the pond hit on
some things that were good and that I can add my 3 cents to !
First is it a Generator or Dynamo... who cares ! however, it's
definitely not an alternator !
I may say that I have some experience in these matters and yet I will
keep the post extremely simple.
From the outset, if you are an Electrical Engineering major please
hit the "effing" delete key.
In the past, some of you (not all, but some) are just far too, well how
should I put this...
Nah... I won't go there right now! I'll be nice.
(wait while I get off my soapbox)
A SIMPLE EASY TEST:
If I were you, I would try these first but in any order you desire.
So, when faced with this elect problem here's my quick fix answers.
Disconnect the fan belt .
Remove the flat band/tin cover so you can view the commutator
1] That commutator may be shiny goldish color
2] it may be dark reddish shiny gold
3] it may be nearly black
4] It may have a big fat score mark around one section where the
brushes have worn down so far ...that the copper leads (pigtails) are
now running on the commutator instead of just the carbon brushes... and
if that [4] is the case you will need to read further down below.
It's not good and maybe can still be saved?
Let's digress:
You may need to grind a couple of wrenches or
spanners, quite thin. You really need to hold the lower nut/s
when undoing the genny connections as too often the whole stud would want
to turn ...possibly breaking off the wires inside the unit)
Disconnect the Regulator but leave any groundwire in place
Run a decent 1/16th diam - approx 16 or 14g wire from the smaller field
terminal
on the Generynamo (Ha ha) to the big fat output post . (tighten carefully)
Now don't be a Silly Ninny with this next action... just be a man
with solid brass ones... OK you know what I mean !
On the other hand, you may already be a tough, do it all fix it man,
so the previous paragraph will not apply ! Ha.
Grab a regular pair of lightweight cheapo car type Jumper cables.
The cheaper the better ...in this case, if we lose a little juice
through the cheapo connections ...it just wont matter.
Run one of the cables from the battery's Grd/earth to the frame/bracket of
the Dynamerator (HA ha)
NB: I said the battery ground... but, take note this may be,
Pos or Neg ...in your application ?
So, let's assume it is Battery NEG for the ground in your case?
The other cable, connect to the Batt POS+
Now, you will try to run this baby as an electric motor.
Yes an electric motor (This test will NOT work with an alternator)
Note, if it is in good generating condition ...it will instantly spin up
to high speed as an electric motor.!
I've seen thousands of these and repaired & rewound dozens and dozens
all types ...all sizes.
(There are some types that have more than one smaller connection on the
case.
It may be that the extra smaller post is just a ground. It may be part of a
fancier field coil design.
This unit may have a third brush on the commutator ...which is not common.
I will not get into these designs.
I am really speaking here, of the type where you have a lighter field
connection and the heavier Gen output connection
NB: (note well)
Now, you will TIGHTLY slam the jumper lead in your hand on to
the big fat terminal.
Don't try to clip it, just slam it in place and tightly hold it there.
If you do this like a "silly ninny" or far too gently and deathly afraid
or without the big brass balls that I afore mentioned ...then you will get a
big silly flash and lots of spark/s
You will not get a shock from the electricity, NOT, Not, not, not, get a
shock at all.
BTW, its not the sparks that are the problem it's how most people react to
the
sparks. Do not pee your pants at this first action as water and electricity
don't mix
well.
Often, when you PULL BACK this allows for even more sparks, so jam it
tightly onto
the terminal and DONT Pull Back for several seconds!
So repeating, Take good aim ...then, Jam tightly... the Pos+ cable onto the
big fat post and
leave it there for a few three to five seconds.
This action applies your 6v or 12v across you armature and field coil.
Instantly, a good Genny will throw itself into an electric motor, and a high
speed
wind up ...and, do not faint and fall to the ground
If you are a sickly type, then have a helper hold your hand, ok !
Several things will happen !
it will turn over like a, well like a little boys piddle ?
(a useless dribble in the wind)
Or
it will spin and start and stop and try to get going (like a giddy
schoolgirl first crush)
or
It will not move at all ! (not a good sign)
or
It will take off like a bas-terd and spin like the devil and you will feel
totally elated and happy and your breath will be taken aback !
You can take the jumper cable off and stick it back on ...then off,
then on, then off and you'll be grinning from ear to ear !
When already spinning fast... you can push the connection on and
off and you will only see a small spark
"Well Done lads" ...will ring in the back of your head, which will be a
throwback from your old school days science teacher/class
However, if it does not spin as we all hope for... go to my next plan.
to pull the unit - tear down and skim the commutator on a lathe then
undercut
the mica insulation between each copper segment approx 1/32" or slightly
less - using a hacksaw blade.
Grind the wavy part off the sides of blade so that the blade is no thicker
than the gap between the copper segments. leaving the mica will eventually
cause brush bounce. Because the mica and copper are of different hardness
...this can lead to a small amount of brush bounce causing very tiny
sparking
and that leads to heat
and that leads to bigger sparks
and that leads to melted solder where the armature wires
join the commutator
and that leads to failure, once again...
and that'sjust where we started, right !
(yes that was a run on sentence - it was meant to be !)
If the commutator is just quite black it may be a dark copper oxide.
Spin the genny by hand and stick a very fine grit paper in on the
commutator.
This will be perhaps, on the end of your little finger... because, there's
just no room in there.
I have actually done this with the power connected and the genny is spinning
quite erratically slow. As the commutater suddenly becomes cleaner and a
decent contact is made, that very same armature start to spin up to normal
high speed revolutions.
If this runs decently then you can rest assured you have a good genny
However, what we haven't taken into account here is if there is an
intermittent
open circuit or even a short circuit in the windings.
If there was that problem ...this perhaps would occur once the internal
temp begins to rise.
If the Gen. is good, it would be practically impossible on the internet to
describe the many variables to adjust a voltage regulator.
These days if I were you, my last move would be to take the reg and Gen
to an old time auto electric shop for further testing as a pair.
Best e'gards
Robbo at the Sheep Dip Cafe' & Jeep Ewe'porium
Syracuse area of NY
Formally of Sydney Australia
aussierob2@odyssey.net
> Message-ID: <00ab01c4eff5$ae1bcce0$344786d9@b9u1z9>
> From: "noel shelley" <noel@shelley1722.freeserve.co.uk>
> Hi Mike and all the Gentlemen of the list !
>
PLEASE
> when referring to the device that makes electricity in all our vehicles
can
> we adhere to the normally accepted terminology !
> A DYNAMO is a device that produces DC electricity , by virtue of the
> commutator ! {used till late 60`s }
> An ALTERNATOR is a device that produces 3phase AC, rectified to DC by the
> rectifier pack {6 diodes for the 3phase + 3for the warning light }[used
> after the 60`s]
> Before you collectively throw me to the dogs , YES I know the above is a
> VERY simplistic view but will suffice for now !
>
> CCKW--- sounds old-- ish , probably a dynamo , right ? If so then check
the
> brushes , long enough , free in their holders and clean ! Commutator clean
,
> not spun solder out , armature not dragging on stator due to worn bearings
!
> NO burnt out wires !
>
> How can I eliminate anything between the two !
>
> A simple continuity test , a bulb and a bit of wire & battery ! Disconnect
> both ends and see if the bulb lights up when connected !
>
> The voltage control box is a wonderful collection of coils & contacts ,
only
> play with this IF you have the data , the test gear and know how to use it
!
> You can clean the contacts , but use only a contact file or GLASS
> PAPER ---- NOTHING ELSE ! be VERY careful NOT to open the contacts more
than
> is essential to clean !
>
> Alternators also have brushes that wear out ! They are usually regulated
> electronically and have no serviceable parts , just rebuild !
> SOME alternators will not work if the warning light bulb fails !
>
> Just in passing , a vehicle with a Completely flat battery and dynamo will
> if towed power up and start {manual box }, but if fitted with an
alternator
> will NOT, due to the alternator needing power to generate !
>
> More nonsense from Noel Happy New Year!
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "42Ford GPW" <ilovejeeps@hotmail.com>
>
> >
> > Maybe the voltage regulator ?? How can I eliminate anything between the
> > two ?
> >
> > Any advice appreciated!
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Curtis
> > 1942 GPW(2) 1943 WC-52
> > 1942 MB 1943 WC-56
> > 1944 MB 1951 M37
> > 1951 M38 1963 M37-B1
> > 1955 M38-A1 1968 M35-A2
> > 1972 M151-A2
> > 1942 OPEN CAB LWB CCKW
> > FORD GPW SPARE PARTS/BOXES/TAGS, ETC.
> >
> >
> > what steps do I have to take in order to get it back to a normal -
ground
> > system ??
> >
> > thanks in advance!
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike Curtis
> > 1942 GPW(2) 1943 WC-52
> > 1942 MB 1943 WC-56
> > 1944 MB 1951 M37
> > 1951 M38 1963 M37-B1
> > 1955 M38-A1 1968 M35-A2
> > 1972 M151-A2
> > 1942 OPEN CAB LWB CCKW
> > FORD GPW SPARE PARTS/BOXES/TAGS, ETC.
> >
> From: "noel shelley" <noel@shelley1722.freeserve.co.uk>
> Subject: Re: [MV] *** SPAM *** Re: [MV] CCKW generator not
> working....any quick fix tricks ?
> Date: Sat, 1 Jan 2005 21:18:44 -0000
>
> a "DYNAMO" is "GENERATOR" in American and Canadian parlance
>
> OK ,so what do you call an alternator , since both gererate electricity ?
>
> Noel
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Military Vehicles Mailing List Digest #1920
> **************************************************
>
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