From: David Ashley (imjustdave@hotmail.com)
Date: Wed Mar 30 2005 - 09:22:45 PST
Maybe you should have your own TOS on the web site, stating that if you work
for such and such you can be disallowed from viewing, or something like that
more for the GL !@#$ then anyone else
-----Original Message-----
From: Military Vehicles Mailing List [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org] On Behalf
Of Wayne Harris
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 9:25 PM
To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
Subject: Re: [MV] Anti-GL site (Here's a preview)
You wrote "I was totally unaware of that GL policy about not being able to
use this option or else! GL's response was its in the TOS, more like it's
buried somewhere in the pages of TOS!"
I don't know if I would mention that part, if you plan on presenting your
case to your elected officials, while I'm not a lawyer I do have a
extensive background of watching Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown, the Texas guy
and the like :-)) and as soon as you tell them, Well I signed the contract
but I didn't read it, you hear them say case dismissed!
As far as I know on writing on a contract you can put anything you like in
one and it is enforceable as long as it is not something illegal by a state
or Federal law.
Both ebay and paypal has in their TOS if you do something they don't like
they can ban you for life.
On your website idea that is great, check out www.paypalsucks.com they have
been operating for years against paypal.
FYI Paypal and G/L must get their office personal from the same place. Good
luck, Wayne
>From: Patrick Jankowiak <recycler@swbell.net>
>To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>Subject: Re: [MV] Anti-GL site (Here's a preview)
>Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:38:06 -0600
>
>Do it. They can do nothing as long as you go no farther than 'fair use',
>and the web page is truthful. There is no wrong which can be done by people
>offering their opinions on the WWW. What are they going to do, send the
>french army to get you? or the black helicopters? (if they are GL helos,
>they won't be flightworthy.. heh.)
>
>Mil-Veh Co. wrote:
>
>>When you read the following it is intended to be the
>>first page introduction and it will have some GL like
>>logo stuff and resemble in a way the GL site, just to
>>give you the picture of what you are in for... of
>>course this is just a sample of what we could do, you
>>guys may have better ideas. Your comments will be
>>appreciated.
>>
>>I know there is some risk that the evil GL will try
>>some legal scare tactics, but we need to stand fast
>>because we are right. GL is an arrogant giant and has
>>ruined the experience of buying surplus for many of
>>us. OK here goes:
>>
>>This pro-consumer, "anti- Government Liquidations"
>>site was created to expose the nightmare of doing
>>business "GL" way.
>>
>>Post your complaints, troubles, fraud stories,
>>lawsuits, and other dissatisfaction in the forums.
>>Read the faq pages for help in resolving your GL
>>troubles and complaints.
>>
>>To enumerate the complaints:
>>
>>1. According to GL accepting their ToS (Terms of
>>Service) in effect means you waive your rights to
>>credit card consumer protection laws if you want to
>>use their service, and that you may not issue a
>>chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card
>>and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the
>>right to permanently ban you from their site! Is this
>>legal? We don't know, but it's how GL operates. See
>>GL's TOS for more information, its in there, but you
>>practically have to be a Philidelphia lawyer to find
>>it..If you have a problem with "GL" or they feel your
>>actions are questionable, then GL is the investigator,
>>judge, jury and executioner. "Telling your side" of
>>what happened, in most cases seems to be irrelevant
>>and is met with a stonewall corporate attitude. Try
>>to get the details of their investigation or documents
>>they relied upon to make their decisions, ha!
>>
>>2. Their customer service is horrible. They make you
>>call on their dime to resolve problems they caused. Once you get there
>>expect the process to be tedious,
>>fraught with obstruction and you likely get bounced
>>around from person to person. If that was not bad
>>enough, chances are you will get zip, just a lecture
>>on why it's YOUR FAULT.
>>
>>If you feel you have been treated unfairly by this
>>corporation, you need not feel alone, nor helpless. This time the "little
>>guy" is taking a stand against
>>this huge monopoly. Like you, we're fed up with
>>"Government Liquidations" arrogance, rudeness and
>>highly questionable business practices. If these tactics were done by you
>>or your small
>>business operation, you would would soon be out of
>>business, however GL's doesn't have to worry about
>>customer satisfaction because they are the only game
>>in town, so to speak.
>>
>>GL has a monopoly on a good deal of the US military
>>surplus they are selling around the world. The loss
>>of a few hundred customers due their shoddy behavior
>>is no big deal. They know there are thousands of
>>others who will take the place of those angry
>>customers because buyers are virtually forced to do
>>business with them or do without. So, you to do it
>>their way or no way and if they are wrong you better
>>just get over it or you're not going to be doing
>>business with them again. Apparently GL never heard
>>of, "The customer is always right." Now it's more
>>like "GL is always right!"
>>
>>Case in point, awhile back I had been buying surplus
>>on a fairly regular basis from GL. Since their suplus
>>pickup points vary with individual auctions and times,
>>I occassionally had to wait weeks, sometime even
>>months if a release form was needed from the
>>government. Then I would make my rounds and retrieve
>>the items I bought, so far so good.
>>
>>This worked for a time, then one day I was told some
>>property I had bought thru GL had been placed back
>>into "inventory" and resold without any notice to me! I think about 5-6
>>weeks had passed from the time I
>>bought it and when they resold it. Seems how long
>>they hold property changes from location to location
>>and it depends on who you know.
>>
>>This was a stunner and the lack of courtesy involved
>>left me feeling pretty flat. Heck, I was a pretty
>>good customer and I knew many people at the site where
>>the property was warehoused. Is that legal to resell
>>already sold and paid for property without noice to
>>the buyer? I don't know, but it sure is unethical. It's not like they
>>couldn't contact me, they had all
>>sorts of email, phone and address information on me
>>from my many prior contacts.
>> I protested of course this VISA charge and they said
>>they would take it under consideration. Well, weeks
>>passed and nothing happened. I made several more
>>frustrated inquiries and felt like I was just getting
>>the runaround. Finally, I decided to protest the
>>charge made to my card with VISA and see what happens.
>>
>>
>>I was totally unaware of that GL policy about not
>>being able to use this option or else! GL's response
>>was its in the TOS, more like it's buried somewhere in
>>the pages of TOS!
>> When I did file a complaint with VISA and GL became
>>aware of it, I was bluntly informed by them that
>>filing such a protest was akin to "thievery" in their opinion and I was
>>now forbidden from using GL's
>>auction for life. Of course at the time of this
>>incident GL held all the cards. I never got my
>>property, they threatened to keep my money, they
>>dragged their feet on making a decision to refund it
>>and they had the audacity to say I was a thief for
>>protesting this charge? No rational appeal was welcomed by GL,
>>although I
>>really tried. I laid it all out on the phone and in
>>writing and I got precisely nowhere. Funny, this
>>whole thing could have been avoided if they had just
>>notified me before reselling my property. That was
>>pretty rude! Or if they had responded in a timely
>>manner for my request for a refund of my money.
>> Well, they wouldn't budge, it was all my fault
>>according them and they got pretty nasty with me,
>>reminding me of what a terrible thing I had done to
>>protest the VISA charge. The audacity of that poor
>>treatment still raises my blood pressure.
>>
>>Yes, I finally did get a refund from GL when they got
>>around to it, but I also got the boot for simply doing
>>what the VISA card says I can legally do, according to
>>my cards TOS! Well, never mind the vendor VISA
>>contract agreement either, apparently GL is big enough
>>to get away with NOT abiding by the rules most others
>>must.
>>
>>VISA said they would not revoke their vendors account
>>because of this practice, never got a clear reason
>>why.
>> This was ONLY one incident, but since then I have
>>conversed with my friends on the internet and found
>>many other stories of what I consider to be "consumer
>>abuse." I would like you to read some of those
>>stories as time permits that I can post them here.
>> UPDATE: I've heard GL is actually a French owned
>>business with many of their top execs are NOT
>>Americans which seems odd since this is US government
>>military surplus we are talking about here. I'm
>>looking into this part and if its true I am going to
>>ask my Congressman why isn't an all American business handling American
>>surplus? And why isn't their some
>>sort of appeal mechanism for disatisfied customers
>>like me? Seems like fair questions to me and I'll let
>>you know what I find out as soon as I can.
>>Till then, I urge anyone doing business with "GL" to
>>"read the fine print" and be very careful about what
>>you are buying and the local terms and conditions,
>>which can vary widely. Make sure you inspect the
>>item/s if at all possible to prevent a switch. Have
>>something in writing about when you intend to pickup
>>your property too, so the kind of incident I had
>>doesn't happen to you. I guess I trusted GL too much
>>and took too much for granted as I couldn't envision
>>them doing what they did...well, live and learn. But,
>>it's not over because I want people to know the kind
>>of stuff GL is doing to people and when you read the
>>reports from other customers here, you'll really
>>appreciate my warnings. Who knows maybe we will have
>>enough clout to effect some positive change at GL?
>>
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