RE: HMV angst

From: Fred H. Schlesinger (fred@schlesingers.net)
Date: Tue Feb 14 2006 - 08:24:18 PST


I agree that the MVPA should be more communicative with its members.
This is a fault of there's and one that they should improve on. The MVPA has
a lot of faults. Members like us are dissatisfied and this has caused new
board members to be elected, and the election has, I'm sure, positively
influenced the organization as a whole. I voted for the new slate and
actively supported it on line and with my personal contacts. We have to
give them a chance to put new policies into effect. But, we have to never
forget that the board there, new or old, even if we disagree with them, have
good motives and good intentions. The board members work for free, and
volunteer large amounts of their time for our hobby and they deserve our
thanks.

And, of course, except for suggesting that the MVPA address us here, I agree
with the rest of your post and urge everyone to become involved. We can
expect the MVPA, and the other Military Vehicle Organizations to work for
us, and we can tell them privately what we think they should be doing, but
we can't wait around for big brother to save us. We have to organize.

That, by the way, is what the members of the Military Transport Association,
Inc in Northern New Jersey, unanimously voted to do last night. Headed by
Randy, who is on this list, we will begin a process to positively portray
our hobby as being a rolling history museum, a preservation of the vehicles
of the Greatest Generation, and their children that gained the victory over
evil, and preserved peace on our shores for almost 70 years thereafter. And
we have some other ideas too. We are doing something positive.

If we are critical of the MVPA, we are telling them that privately, as
members, not by publicly berating them. And, of course, like any family, we
have some disagreements.

What I meant by my first sentence was that I do not think that a national
(International) organization should go off half- cocked and answer every
half- baked crackpot idea that we have, or every charge made here or on G503
or anywhere else. Remember, what they say informally will influence what
they are doing behind the scenes with lobbying efforts, etc. And that bad
publicity and bad talk will undermine those efforts.

Lets say that the MVPA President were to email the list and state what they
are doing, and what he thought we should be doing and not doing. Would that
be any more satisfying than what we already know, and is there any chance
that communication wouldn't evoke a flood of diatribe and negative comments
from 90% of the list, bringing up old wounds and fighting old battles? I'll
be him, and you think about your honest response on this list if you
received the email below.

Lets Role play dealing with the Kansas situation, just for fun, because,
other than paying my 35 bucks like everyone else, I have no idea what the
MVPA President might actually say if he were to write here. Suppose he
would say:

"Hello, I'm the Pres. We at the MVPA have a committee that is actively
engaged in Government Liaison. They are spending countless hours on the
situation in Kansas. We are very concerned about the situation there. And
we are doing everything we can to resolve it, without inflaming the
situation and pushing people into positions from where negotiation would not
be possible."

Suppose he stopped there. Would you feel any better? Would the follow up to
the thread be positive or negative?

Suppose he went further:

"We have emailed every member of ours in Kansas and made them aware of the
situation and asked them to apply political pressure on their local
officials. And we have added our advice and support to our local affiliated
clubs ,and have provided both advice and logistical support to them. We do
not believe that individuals outside of Kansas will be able to positively
influence the situation. In fact threats of action or retaliation by
outsiders have been demonstrated to be counter- productive to negotiating a
settlement of the situation of the renegade DMV in Kansas. In fact, we have
tried to inject ourselves directly into the matter, but we have been
resented and looked at as outsiders by the local politicians."

At this point they have disclosed their strategy publicly and have given
ammunition to those opposed to us to make them look like the NRA or
something and make the local MV officials look like David standing up to
Goliath and its millions of dollars, protecting the fair citizens of Kansas
from us carpetbaggers with our smoke spewing, hydrocarbon burning, polluting
and unsafe at any speed armored vehicles and their (perish the thought)
gas- firing scary looking automatic weapons. I don't think that would be a
good idea, and I don't think we would have learned anything we didn't
already know from the posts here.

And would the response be positive, of more public flaming of the
organization?

I think that getting into a dialogue with us is a no win situation for them.
It would be a stupid move, and would hurt the hobby.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: MV [mailto:MV@dc9.tzo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 9:21 AM
To: Fred H. Schlesinger
Cc: Military Vehicles Mailing List
Subject: Re: [MV] HMV angst

I don't think it is unreasonable to have MVPA officials put out the word
that they have updates on the MVPA website regarding the Kansas
situation via this email list or whatever.

There is nothing to read regarding the situation on the MVPA website as
of today other than their mention of it in the upper right hand corner -
which is barely noticeable to me due to the poor choice in colors for
the text versus the background.

I agree, I think it is very important for everyone to get at least a
membership with an organization who represents our interests at this
time. Otherwise we may simply be run over by these out of control
bureaucrats who want to ban and recycle everything that isn't currently
sold by Walmart, painted suburban beige, or less than 5 years old.

Dave

Fred H. Schlesinger wrote:
> I don't think that the MVPA should be corresponding with anyone on an
email
> list. They are involved in the Kansas thing and will become involved in
> France as well, I imagine.
>
> Listen guys. If you belong to a local Military Vehicle organization, MVPA
> affiliate or not, you should be organizing yourselves to prepare for an
> attack on our hobby from within your state. And metropolitan areas should
> join together, so that, for example, the New Jersey, New York Eastern Pa
> clubs should cooperate together to cultivate the political contacts, and
to
> present the hobby in a favorable light. Timothy's post is an example of
> thinking on the subject that I think is solid and to the point. If your
> club is an MVPA affiliate, or if you are an MVPA member then call Lee
> Holland and get on the governmental relations committee, get involved on a
> national level.
>
> If you don't belong to a club, then you are freeloading off of us who put
> our money and time toward an organization that supports our hobby.
>
> For our part, The Military Transport Association Inc. has this topic on
its
> agenda for tonight's meeting, with the idea that we will appoint a
committee
> to get ready for the assault before the tomahawks go off. The time is
now.
> Stop ranting and bellyaching and get together with like minded people and
> organize.
>
> What will they do when they come for you? Choose now.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Convoy Magazine [mailto:convoymagazine@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 3:12 PM
> To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
> Subject: [MV] HMV angst
>
> 1- I note with interest in the last little while the
> list has been taken up not with hobby "tips, but
> rather with serious attacks on our hobby. I sadly
> suspect that such restrictions and bans will only
> continue and this list will continue its importance as
> a discussin area for such very important issues..
>
> I think its time the MVPA- to get onto this list and
> keep its members-and non-member hobbyists- up to speed
> on what they are doing in reaction to members concerns
> about their/our hobby, both within the US and
> internationally.
>
> 2- TJ's last posting has some good points and in that
> vein, I think that from now on..it would also be
> extremely beneficial for "future" needs that hobbyists
> take note of any politician, citizen of importance (eg
> media figure, sports figure) or veteran who enjoys the
> presence of an HMV at a rally, ceremony, or or or..
>
> These are the IMPORTANT contacts we will need to tap
> into when further restrictions are imposed!
>
> Monty
>
>
>
> --- timothy.smith1@att.net wrote:
>
>
>>Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do when they come
>>for you?
>>
>>For Americans, the best way to ensure such a
>>buckshot attack on private ownership does not
>>succeed (and there have been and will be future
>>attacks on our hobby) is to cultivate public support
>>for the private ownership of HMV's.
>>
>>In order to accomplish this we need to get our
>>vehicles to public events and display them in a
>>historical context. It is not enough that we ensure
>>we tack the word "historic" onto the phrase
>>"military vehicle." These two thoughts need to be
>>inextricably linked by deeds.
>>
>>For example:
>>
>>HMV owner #1 drives his HMV in the local parade
>>completely kitted out with all the gear, guns, etc.
>>
>>HMV owner #2 drives his HMV to the town's Veteran's
>>Day celebration (provided there IS one) and sets up
>>a small, well balanced historical display around it.
>> By well balanced, I mean that there is at least as
>>much attention given to displaying the more mundane
>>items as there is to weapons. Remember, the popular
>>view is that weapons are "bad."
>>
>>Now, there's nothing wrong with what either HMV
>>owner did, but which is better? Well, in my humble
>>opinion, HMV owner #2 has done a better job. Why?
>>Because his vehicle is being shown in a historical
>>context. And at the end of the day, FEWER people
>>will be going home saying, there's some guy in
>>(insert your town here) who owns a really dangerous
>>military vehicle and he has lots of guns on it!
>>
>>This is not to say that we should hide our HMV's
>>from view if we aren't in a position to display them
>>in a historical context but we need to help the
>>casual observer of our HMV's make that connection to
>>the preservation and appreciation of history. Some
>>suggestions for this would be; make sure your HMV or
>>HMV display always prominantly (and properly)
>>displays your nation's flag or colors. Surround
>>your vehicle with the music of the era (guaranteed
>>to sooth the savages). Try not to engage in
>>political commentary; i.e. first and foremost, be an
>>HMV collector/restorer (hobbyists get more sympathy
>>than hobbyists with political agendas). And one
>>other suggestion...
>>
>>This last suggestion is gonna generate a lot of
>>discussion but I'm going to throw it out there for
>>discussion..
>>
>>The wearing of military uniforms when in and around
>>our HMV's has its place especially in living history
>>displays and reenactments. So let's just whittle
>>this down to parades and local displays. From the
>>standpoint of smoothing easily ruffled feathers and
>>gaining popular support for the private ownership of
>>HMV's we cannot afford to go around looking like
>>some kind of MILITIA. (On the topic as being
>>perceived as some kind of kooky militia types,
>>imagine how I felt when, for the third year in a
>>row, our parade officials announced our group as
>>"Alamo Military" when in fact we were to have been
>>announced as "Alamo Military Vehicle Preservation
>>Association." By the way, I have told the parade
>>organizers we would NOT be returning to the local
>>parade if this was not resolved!) So, it might be
>>more appropriate to invest in a mannequin for that
>>military uniform (a small expense compared to our
>>HMV's!) and attend your local display, neatly
>>dressed in some of our fine MVPA clothing (which you
>>will look better in if you are in shape (read that,
>>ROUND....hey, round is a shape!), like me!.
>>
>>This is all I have for now...food for thought.
>>
>>TJ
>>
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>
>
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