Military Vehicles, May 1997,: Re: [MV] matching numbers
Re: [MV] matching numbers
DOConnor@zoomit.sikorsky.com
7 MAY 97 11:43:36 EDT
JP,
Good Points! I'll take your comments and use them to add to my own
knowledge and understanding. I'll also repeat my previous disclaimer: My
thoughts are based solely on personal knowledge and experience and worth
exaclty something or nothing - you decide for yourself. When I'm wrong I
welcome learning what's right.
Your evaluation of assembly procedures actually fits very well with mine
but addresses when things were stamped. In both scenarios (Ford & Willys) the
jeep is assembled from random components stockpiled for that purpose as I
contended; not from parts previously marked and carefully tracked to final
assembly. If Ford didn't stamp anything until the end of the line then all
#'s would match no question. If Willy's procedure was to stamp the engine at
the end of that line before delivery to final assy then that would explain
why frame and dash match and engine doesn't because not all engines built
went for jeep final assy but also went for other orders as you noted.
Your research supports your assumption correctly. Please take into account
the way jeeps were rebuilt at depot level during and especially after WW2.
All of the photos I've seen of the post-war process show that jeeps (others
too?) were simply disassembled and the major components stacked with others
then reconditioned and reassembled. They didn't keep the parts in order and
replaced bad parts with the next available one anyway so the chance of one
coming out with all the same parts it had going in are almost non-existent.
During the war if the jeep was damaged or developed a problem it would be
repaired at the discretion of the base doing the work. They could remove,
recondition and reinstall the original parts (our WC12 engine was rebuilt
this way). They could also replace the parts with one already available and
either discard the original, return it to depot for rebuild, or do the work
later themselves. This process also mixed the numbers and sometimes
manufacturers as well.This info was provided to me by the gentleman we bought
our '42 GPW from here in CT. He was a motor pool man during WW2 both in the
states and overseas so I tend to trust his story.
Cutting the serial number from a frame and welding it into another frame
is illegal here in CT and other places no doubt. I personally know a man
convicted, sentenced and serving time for the practice. It was not on MV's
but the law doesn't change based on vehicle type.
Restamping is an area where I will never split hairs and is an area where
"caveat emptor" (Buyer Beware) is absolute. When talking rusted out hulks in
fields...I agree it's probably "as surplused". When you're looking at a full
restoration for $15,000 you need to be careful (no I don't buy these). If the
seller is marketing the vehicle as "all original matching numbers" and asking
top dollar because of it then any restamping is fraud. Misrepresenting the
vehicle in any manner to increase the price or appeal is fraudulent. The
difference in price is not miniscule either, unless $5,000 to $10,000
premiums mean nothing to you.
To the uninitiated simply saying "matching numbers" implies originality
and failing to explain that you restamped a replacement block, frame or data
plate is fraud by omission. On the other hand if you are completely honest
about the jeep and what you did to restore it including repro parts and
altered numbers and both parties are happy with the deal then the price is
moot point. For example: We did a '68 Chevelle SS396 frame up from a
completely original matching numbers example. During engine rebuild the VIN
number was machined off the block and the trans had to be replaced so it had
a differrent VIN (from another '68 SS396). When we sold it after enjoying it
for about 8 years we told the buyer everything in detail and reached a
mutually agreeable price. He still drives it around and we sleep fine even
though restamping the numbers would have raised the price at least $5,000 and
while the block was original the trans wasn't so we chose to do nothing and
be honest.
I don't know of any absolute method of detecting restamping other than
what I already related and comparing casting dates and known characteristics
to the date of delivery. Care to share your methods with the list? Fraud of
any kind only hurts the hobby for everyone and should exposed and discouraged
at all times. Honesty is always the best policy (couldn't resist the cliche)
or maybe I'm just too old fashioned.
For What It's Worth,
Dennis O'Connor
doconnor@sikorsky.com
openwheels@juno.com
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