Re: [MV] Bren gun Mounts for GWP/MB

Brad Mossie (bmossie@earthlink.net)
Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:38:49 -0800

> > At 09:39 PM 2/19/98 -0000, tcb wrote:
> >
> > >Does anyone know if the Bren LMG was fitted on a mount to a GWP/MB
> by the
> > >British army during WW2 - If so - how? I used to have a round hole
> cut
> > >(since repaired - let the rain in a bit) in the top of my GPW
> bulkhead, just
> > >to the left of the glove box and the right of the parking brake -
> It has
> > >been suggested that a gun mount would have stuck out of this - but
> I feel
> > >that this is too far toward the drivers side to be effective for
> the
> > >passenger.
>

Folks:
My buddy Brad told me about this message and sence I was over at
his house I thought I would respond. I have been doing substantial
research on British Airborne gun jeeps in WWII. In the process I have
come across some of the origional drawings for the mounts, as well as
all the other modifications required for Airborne jeeps. So let me take
the time and give you a little information on the subject.
The standard jeep mounted MG was the Vickers K gun. They were
origionaly chosen during the North Africa campaign due to the shortage
of Bren guns. The K gun was origionaly a tail gun, on twin a mount, for
obsolete British biplanes. Many of these aircraft were destroyed on the
ground in North Africa at the start of the war and the guns were sitting
in warehouses when David Sterling of the SAS was looking for guns to arm
his fledgling unit. The RAF was happy to get the K guns out of their
stores and gave large numbers to the SAS. In desert operations the drum
magazine of the K gun was a very reliable feed system and the guns
reliability, light weight, and feirsome rate of fire made it a hit with
those who traveled fast and hit hard. In fact the only real problem
with the gun was that its high rate of fire, 950 -1000 rounds per
minute, made it hard to cary enough ammo as well as burned out barrels a
a rapid rate.
The sucess of the K gun with the SAS led to its adoption by the
British Airborne (A/B). Unlike the SAS, however, the Airborne mandated
only a single K gun per vehicle, though there is at least 1 account of a
A/B Reconnaissance (Recce) jeep with a twin mount. The modifications of
the jeep to accept the K gun were done under contract by local firms
according to a standard set of plans. The Mount used by the majority of
A/B gun jeeps was known as the the No. 20 mount, which consisted of a
base which went through the top of the dash and the bottem of the glove
box, an insert that slipped into the base, and a rotateing top which
attached to the gun. The 20 mount allowed installation in vehicles that
retained the windshield, to put it up or down you simply pulled out the
insert then put it back when the windshield had been moved. This type
of mount can be clearly seen on a Recce jeep in "Theirs is the Glory",
the story of Arnhem fillmed in 1945, as well as in several photos of
several 6th Airborne gun jeeps during the King's review prior to the D
Day drop in 1944. The No. 20 mount was installed directly infront of
the passinger and would leave one 2 inch hole and and four half inch
holes in the top of the dash along with a 5/8 inch hoile in the bottem
of the glove box.
The second, and far rarer, mount was the 20A mount. This mount was
used solely by the Airborne Reconnaissance Squadrons, as far as I can
tell, and encorporated parts from the PLM mount, a twin Bren gun mount
made for use on armoured cars. The 20A consisted of a large cast iron
cone base with a short section of pipe coming out the top. Attached to
the pipe, by what appears to be pipe clamps in the origional photos, are
two more pieces of pipe in the shape of a backwards L. On the verticle
leg of the L is an attachment for the K gun. The purpose of this
strange assembly was to allow the mount to be bolted more towards the
center of the dash than the 20 mount and still allow the gun to be right
in front of the passinger. The shift in posistion allowed the L portion
of the mount to be released and swung from the passinger side of the
vehicle towards the drivers side, and by so doing allowed the jeep
enough clearence to be put into a Horsa glider, this was accomplished
with the 20 mount by simply removeing the insert portion of the mount.
Unlike the No. 20 mount the 20A does not appear to have been used with
the windscreen as the base looks like it extends into the portion of
the dash where the windscreen lives. Unfortuneatly, none of the
origional No. 20A mounts survive and to this date, no drawings for the
20A mount exist.
Now to the point of all this, it is possible, though unlikely ,
that the holes you describe could be the result of the installation of a
20A mount. Unlikely because most of the vehicles equipped with them
were destroyed or captured by the Germans at and arround Arnhem during
Operation Market-Garden in 1944. One possible way to tell if this is
in fact a British AB gun jeep, with the 20A mount is to look for all the
other modifications done to these vehicles which might include:

Missing steps behind the front fenders.
Holes in the front fenders to mount the two small blackout lights from
the grill.
A shortened reenforced and boxed in front bumper, with two holes in the
center.
The four rivets which attach the back frame member to the frame rails
would be drilled out and might have a strange little bracket screwed in
their place.
There would be little home made footman loops welded to the backs of
both the front seats, as well as on the floor behind the seats.

These are by far not the only modifications but some of the most likely
to survive civilian life. If any of these things ring true you might
have a very rare and valuable jeep variation. If you have any questions
about this please feal free to drop me a line at
bmorgan@ns.net

Yours

Morgan Blanchard

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