Re: [MV] m151a2 ["V"] markings- fratricide

Richard Notton (
Sat, 2 Jan 1999 09:36:37 -0000

-----Original Message-----
From: John K. Seidts <>
To: Glenn Shaw <>; Richard Notton
Cc: <>
Date: 01 January 1999 18:27
Subject: Re: [MV] m151a2 ["V"] markings- fratricide

>>> Didn't work too well though. . . . . . . . .

>>Why do you say that? Friendly fire incidents were lower by far
>>than in previous wars. I don't think that they will ever be able
>One can
>>just do what one can.
>Another statistics thing. The number of fratricidal incidents
decreased per
>number of soldiers in theatre, due to the large number of soldier's in
>operation, and the relatively few casualties.
>BUT, the percentage of fratricidal incidents in relation to overall
>casualties increased dramatically.
>Short analysis, we killed lots of Iraqi's, they killed few of us, and
>almost matched their count. The Pentagon really was expecting a
>on our side, . . . . . . . . . . . . .

For Pentagon you can read "Whitehall" too, and "our" = coalition.

>Well, it certainly did for the most part. But only in daylight, at
>range. Most of the incidents of mistakes occurred at night, or at low
>visibility. Black V's painted on moving vehicles aren't the 100%

Quite right and hence ">>> Didn't work too well though. . . . . . . .
.", both the inverted V and additional roof ID's were largely useless
for helicopters or very high flying aircraft to recognise, certainly in
the case of one particular APC; the findings of the Board of Inquiry
makes salutary reading but it was hindered by govt intervention gagging
the aircrew and refusing to authorise attendance.

>A personal soldier IFF transponder is the real answer, with
>varying frequencies to foil enemy use of the technique. It's bullshit
>we didn't have such a system in place in all vehicles during the
>The technology was there, but the funding was not. We could afford to
>multi million dollar Patriot batteries to protect Israeli citizens, but
>couldn't afford to design and implement a vehicular IFF system to
>our own soldiers. I understand the politics of that, but I don't
Quite so, however an excellent command/information system was in place
to continuously track vehicle locations and reference to this data might
have been wise before firing not after.

Now, I think I'm sufficiently near the topic cliff-edge to desist !

Best regards,

(Southampton UK)

To unsubscribe from the mil-veh mailing list, send the single word
UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of a message to <>.