Re: [MV] D Day article in the Daily Mirror today in UK

From: COLIN STEVENS (colin@pacdat.net)
Date: Sat Nov 04 2000 - 23:59:59 PST


Friends, be careful as this furor over the salvage of D-Day sunken vehicles
is a double edged sword.

My wife's uncle, George Inglis, commanded a Duplex-Drive DD Sheman tank on
the D-Day landing on the Canadian beaches in Normandy, June 1944. Luckily he
survived the war (but lost at least two tanks to enemy fire). He COULD have
however easily died in the sea off Normandy in his tank if it had sunk
enroute to the beach.

Recently the US Government ruled that treasure hunters could not salvage
Spanish shipwrecks from hundreds of years ago. The Spanish Government claims
they never surrendered title to these ships, even though they lost the ships
long ago. The US Govt chose to support this legal action apparently because
they want the same protection extended to US ships that had sunk anywhere in
the world and from ANY period be it WWII, War of 1812 or whatever. It would
be impossible for the US Government to tell treasure hunters not to salvage
from a WWII US warship (possibly containing 'bodies') sunk in the
Mediterranean for example and at the same time permit US treasure hunters to
salvage Spanish shipwrecks (even if hundreds of years old). Both were likely
'graves' of sailors of respective navies. There has also been similar
concern raised about salvagers taking items from the wreck of the Titanic -
whether off the ship itself or from the seabed around it.

Sounds logical - protect the 'graves' of US sailors around the world by
extending the same coutesy (legl protection) to other nations. The USS
Arizona at Pearl Harbour is a prime example of a ship now preserved as a war
grave by the US Government.

Now consider this:

1. This US government was busy scraping the USS Arizona during WWII after it
was sunk at her moorings by the Japanese on 1941 Dec 07. There is virtually
nothing left above the water surface today - and the gun turrets did not
rust away. Some salvagers were apparently killed when explosive gases or
whatever were hit by their cutting torches and the scrapping was halted.
After the scrapping effort was halted, THEN what was left the ship was
turned into a sacred monument. I do not mock it for I have visited the
Arizona Monument in Pearl Harbour and was very moved by it. It is strange is
it not that what was left by the scrap dealers is now a sacred grave?

2. Recently some collectors objected to the US Navy apparently seizing a
salvaged sunken USN aircraft from the salvagers. The USN claimed they still
owned it. If some crew had died in the crash the government could also claim
it to be a grave (though they are just as likely to scrap a 'grave' wreck or
let it rot away rather than salvage and restore the aircraft).

3. The USN is now busy salvaging the USS Monitor (US Civil War warship).
Perhaps one could argue that it should be left undisturnbed as a war grave
and left to rot rather than be disturbed/salvaged and put on display in a
museum. (I say this with tongue in cheek as I am a Musuem Curator who
constantly works on saving things and museums are FULL of stuff salvaged
from death sites graves (e.g. Pyramids), shipwrecks (50% or more of the
contents of some maritime museums), air crashes

So, carry this argument on to the case of the jeeps, tanks and other MVs in
the holds of sunken ships. If some MVs happened to be in good condition
(even if only for display), and collectors or museums wanted to salvage
them, but someone had died in the ship sinking, the government could claim
it was a war grave and prohibit salvage.

Likewise, the German government could use the same argument on Tiger tanks
that may have sunk in Polish rivers during WWII (e.g. having fallen through
the ice in winter). They COULD simply say leave them to rot as war graves.

What if the ONLY known example of a plane/ship/tank/submarine was declared a
'war grave' by the government that originally owned it? Rust in peace.

What if the German Government insisted that Aberdeen Proving Grounds return
German WWII tanks because some were 'war graves' as some of their servicemen
had been killed in them?

See how good intentions can backfire? Pardon my paranoia. I realize that it
is usually the realm of the gun collectors. ;-)

A view from Pitt Meadows, BC, Canada.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jeanne Lacourse <cckw@mediaone.net>
To: Military Vehicles Mailing List <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2000 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] D Day article in the Daily Mirror today in UK

> We did well with HR4205, how about letting out federal Senators and Reps
> know of this and have them pressure the State Dept to pressure France to
> stop this!
>
> I will forward the original message to my senators tomorrow
>
>
> Steve AKA Dr Deuce



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