From: Ted Hils - Ted's Trucks (tedhils@cyber-south.com)
Date: Sat Feb 09 2002 - 06:28:37 PST
Tell them that the networks would sure love the headlines "ARMORED CAR
COMPANY ATTACKS INTERNET HOBBYIST!"
Ted Hils
Ted's Trucks 'N Stuff
RR 2 Box 66H
Midland City, Al 36350
334-983-1092
Mon.- Fri., 8-5 CST
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Barrow" <abarrow@mindspring.com>
To: <mvlist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 9:19 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] [MVlist] CadillacGage.Com
> Hello all,
>
> OK. Upfront, I'm not a lawyer. But I work in the internet industry and
have
> significant exposure to the domain name arena. (I'm not a doctor, but I
play
> one on TV!)
>
> I agree with the previous opinions. Specifically:
>
> 1) You have not tried to sell the domain name. (Strike one against
> cybersquatting)
> 2) It is clearly a hobbiest site, and you have an appropriate disclaimer
> 3) You have been in operation for 4 years as a hobbiest site. IE: you are
> not trying to capitalize on recent events, etc.
> 4) You refer all commercial enquiries to the company itself.
>
> You have a strong case. I would enlist help from the EFF, as mentioned in
> the link below.
>
> At the minimum, the company should offer you more than just relocation.
You
> have a strong, loyal following that would not be able to find your site!
> Will they provide a link on their corporate site to your new one? You
would
> be willing to provide a link to them, if they had one.
>
> If you are willing to be a nice guy, they should also show some form of
good
> will other than we won't prosecute. Quite simply they showed no interest
for
> years. You did, for honorable reasons. Your use is legit. If they want it,
> they can make an offer, which does not have to be a cash payout.
>
> Some other reasonable forms of good faith would be:
> - donate a commando static display to the museum of your choice.
> - provide yearly factory tours for the Commando appreciation club
> - donate additional materials from their archive to a museum
> - Make additional archival materials available for duplication and
> non-profit sale to MVPA members
> - They join the MVPA and send a display vehicle to the conventions for 10
> years
> - They donate space on their site for historical aspects, and let you
> maintain it. (to reasonable corporate standards)
>
> All that said, it will cost them $25-50k or more to take this to court.
You
> should be able to get legal assistance from the sources mentioned
> previously. It would be in their best interests to offer you something
> reasonable rather than try to bully you. I would certainly not relenquish
> the site without more dialog.
>
> You could consider a simple page with a factual statement about CG's
attempt
> to force you to hand over your hobbiest site or be prosecuted. You are
> honoring the intent of their request while the issue is settled elsewhere.
>
> Explain to the CG folks that you have done this while you contact legal
> defense with organizations like EFF, ACLU, etc. Also indicate that any
> attempt at bullying will be handled via publication to CNN. Indicate to
them
> that all further communication should be via written form unless they are
> agreeable to have the conversations recorded for future court disclosures.
> You might want to do this via registered mail, copying the EFF, ACLU, your
> local congressmen, etc.
>
> One the literature bit, my understanding is that as long as you attribute
> them appropriately, you are entitled under fair use to display your
> automobilia. Copyright violation would imply that you are commercially
> benefiting from their material. (Yes, I know the millenium act compromised
> this some, and their lawyers will tell you that it is a violation, but it
is
> not.) The Ford ruling was pretty explicit about the trademark enforcement.
>
> Chrysler approached many of the enthusiest sites and had them sign a
> disclaimer agreement, show an appropriate disclosure, and then allowed
them
> to continue.
>
> One suggestion I would make is to add the word "Unofficial" to the title
> page. IE: the "Unofficial XYZ page" to make it crystal clear, though you
may
> not want to make the change while in dispute. (Could imply that you had
some
> other intent)
>
> OK, keep us posted. Let us know if we can help. Stick to your principles,
> these wheels turn very slowly. They might reconsider.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> Alan Barrow
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ted Hils - Ted's Trucks" <tedhils@cyber-south.com>
> To: <MVlist@yahoogroups.com>; "Military Vehicles Mailing List"
> <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:32 AM
> Subject: Re: [MV] [MVlist] CadillacGage.Com
>
>
> > Nice job of investigative reporting, Rick. Sounds like CadillacGage
> either
> > doesn't know what they are talking about or they are trying to bluff
> (read:
> > bully) their way through.
> >
> >
> > Ted Hils
> > Ted's Trucks 'N Stuff
> > RR 2 Box 66H
> > Midland City, Al 36350
> > 334-983-1092
> > Mon.- Fri., 8-5 CST
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Richard Lathrop" <lathrrs@snip.net>
> > To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 10:17 AM
> > Subject: Re: [MV] [MVlist] CadillacGage.Com
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Good idea I would recommend that anyone interested in this
thread,direct
> > there attention to the following link.
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://www.eff.org/IP/Internet_address_disputes/Ford_v_GreatDomains/20020110
> > _eff_pr.html
> > >
> > > Ford sued website owners claiming that they infringed on copyrighted
> names
> > vintagejaguar, etc. The court stated: "neither registering, nor
> warehousing,
> > nor trafficking in a domain name that incorporates a protected trademark
> is
> > alone sufficient to support claims of trademark infringement or
dilution.
> > Both causes of action require use of a trademark in connection with
goods
> or
> > services, which, in the cybersquatting context, generally will require
> > evidence that the domain was used to host a website from which goods or
> > services have been offered over the Internet."
> > >
> > > This is an issue that effects anyone out there that has domain names
> > related to our much loved green things.
> > >
> > > Rick
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > From: Rikk Rogers <rkltd@swbell.net>
> > > Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 09:51:31 -0600
> > >
> > > >Call CNN first and see what they have to say.
> > > >It is an interesting news item, and your use of the site has been for
> > > >education, and the advancement of a historical item.
> > > >This is not a case of domain squatting, and I'll pitch $20 into the
> > defense
> > > >fund.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Rikk Rogers - RK Lion LTD.
> > > >(580)762-3157 rkltd@swbell.net
> > > >http://home.swbell.net/rkltd/
> > > >-M35A2- -M38- MVPA -22345-
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: Military Vehicles Mailing List [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org]On
> > > >Behalf Of Richard Lathrop
> > > >Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 2:30 AM
> > > >To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
> > > >Subject: Re: [MV] [MVlist] CadillacGage.Com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Jack and other list members,
> > > >
> > > >I wish to thank you for your kind words of support. Jack is correct
> what
> > > >they are alleging is domain squatting. I have never had an issue with
> the
> > > >ultimate ownership of the domain name. I was more upset by the tone
> > rather
> > > >then the subject of the request.
> > > >
> > > >Back when I set the site up Textron Marine and Land had zero interest
> in
> > the
> > > >site it has only been recently that this has even shown up on there
> > radar. I
> > > >could allege that by posting thier sales brochures online for 4 years
I
> > was
> > > >giving them free advertising. Since the site was never intended to
> > generate
> > > >profit and was simply a site to tell the story of a product there was
> no
> > > >violation of trademark or copyright laws.
> > > >
> > > >Several people have suggested trading it for an armored car or access
> to
> > > >thier records. This request was met with a threat of unloosing the
> > corporate
> > > >lawyers on me.
> > > >
> > > >My whole take on the situation is that suddenly in the security
> concious
> > US
> > > >following September 11th they want people to find them at this web
> > address
> > > >rather then a simple website.
> > > >
> > > >I have nether the time nor finances to fight this battle. The site
will
> > come
> > > >down on Sunday.
> > > >
> > > >Rick
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > >From: Cougarjack@aol.com
> > > >Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 01:55:42 EST
> > > >
> > > >>I believe there have already been court cases dealing with this
issue.
> > It
> > > >is refered to as "Domain squatting" when you register a domain name
> > that's
> > > >unique to someone else's trade or service mark. If they ultimately
want
> > it,
> > > >the current doctrine seems to say that they get it. I'm not aware of
> > anyone
> > > >who has won this fight, or has succeeded in selling the URL or
> collecting
> > > >any revenue whatsoever on it. In the early days of the web, certain
> > > >visionaries flocked to register such famous names as Coca Cola,
> General
> > > >Motors, etc. In the beginning, a few of these fellows managed to sell
> the
> > > >urls for moderate amounts of cash. But as the practice caught on, and
> > CEO's
> > > >began to understand the value of the web, corporate America responded
> as
> > > >they usually do, with busloads of lawyers and pockets full of corrupt
> > > >Congressmen. As a result, most of these have been forced by the
courts
> to
> > > >surrender them.
> > > >> Sorry Rick! (there's always Amway!)
> > > >>
> > > >>In a message dated Thu, 7 Feb 2002 5:53:25 PM Eastern Standard
Time,
> > Rikk
> > > >Rogers <rkltd@swbell.net> writes:
> > > >>
> > > >>> You have time and sweat invested in the URL, it is worth a Bunch
to
> > them.
> > > >>> 1. you could make them pay out the nose for it.
> > > >>> 2. you could rent space on your URL to them.
> > > >>> 3. you could make em hire you as their web developer, as a
> contractor.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Just don't give it to em w/o a fight, and do get a copyright and
> > patents
> > > >>> lawyer.
> > > >>> And let em know how you feel about the way they have acted.
> > > >>
> > > >>
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> > > >>To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> > > >>
> > > >
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> > > >
> > > >
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> > > >To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> > > >
> > >
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> > > To reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Mon Apr 08 2002 - 00:23:42 PDT