From: Richard Lathrop (lathrrs@snip.net)
Date: Mon Feb 18 2002 - 08:56:41 PST
Steve and other list members.
The problem is that the general populace is being used as a an excuse to reach emissions reduction targets set by the government. Under government programs a corporation can purchase a bunch of hulks get them crushed and then use those credits to offset requirements to upgrade there plants and industries which are poluting worse then the cars they scapped.
Additionally they can trade those credits with other companies and if they do something for a developing country take those credits against stuff they have to do in the US.
Once you look at the big picture of emissions reduction you can see the same sorry pattern repeated over and over again.
President Bush refused to implement the Kyoto protocol which called for major reductions in emissions to combat global warming. His excuse was the impact on the economy.
Unfortunatley the one problem we seem to be unable to solve is the issue of overpopulation. For all the lives we save due to all our good intentions we are running out of space for people.
Rick
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: Steve Grammont <islander@midmaine.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:47:23 -0500
>Gene,
>
>>The liberals figured out a long time ago that the way to take over was
>> incrementalism. A little at a time.
>
>Actually, I think this was something they learned from the far right.
> Rember, first the Nazis were elected (sorta fairly), then they seized
>control of a democractic government (sorta legally), then they rolled
>back certain rights for everybody, then they rolled back even more for
>specific peoples, then they tried to force them to emigrate, then they
>rounded them up for "resettlement", then they killed them while their
>armies plundered, burned, and raped the rest of Europe, which in turn
>lead to the destruction of their nation state. Nothing liberal there,
>inspite of the name of the responsible party being "National Socialist
>German Workers Party".
>
>>We all remember how gun control started.......don't we?
>
>Yup, but I would hardly call George Bush Sr. a liberal.
>
>I do not fear this legislation any more than I fear any other. Any line
>of thinking can be carried to an extreme if our elected officials and the
>sheep like masses of this country (or any country) allow it. But to fear
>sensible legislation now becaues it might become oppressive later is not
>productive. I mean, what else should we oppose? Minimum gas milage and
>safety standards being set for an industry which has proven time and
>again that it does not act in its customer's best interests when left alone?
>
>The entire environmental movement can't be all that bad. It was only 20
>years ago that my local rivers and lakes had nothing living in them and
>gave off a stench so bad that nobody wanted to live anywhere near it.
> Those "liberals" were the ones that made it drinkable again. The others
>continued to take payoffs from the Enrons of the day and fought even the
>most sensible cleanup efforts because it would "hurt industry". Sorry if
>I side with the "liberals" on this one, but I rather not have an open
>industrial cesspool in my back yard so some shoddy company can earn a
>quick buck.
>
>I am a staunch moderate. I despise both left and right when they are
>allowed to take control of the debate, as both of them are generally
>harmful to either the people and/or to the industrial base. If you think
>the left is to blame for all our woes, I suggest taking hard look at The
>Big Picture. There is plenty of blame to go around, and many of them
>call themselves Republicans.
>
>Steve
>
>
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