From: John Seidts (jseidts@astory.com)
Date: Sat Mar 15 2003 - 18:38:05 PST
In response to:
<bprestin@chartermi.net>
> Well, I figured it out.
> John Seidts and David Cole are related. There are nice peace loving
> countries for you two to move to. The taxes there are a bit high though.
> With their socialized medicine. And if you forgot Steve, our presidential
> election process is not supposed be by "popular vote".
>
> Remember: "with us or against us" You are making your position very clear.
Yeah, we're related. We're both US Citizens, one of whom served our country
in the armed forces- in my case over 12 years. I also have served 9 years
in the Department of Defense as a Civilian. 21 years of combined
government service at the age of 35. And I don't invite citizens to leave
the country, on any account. I believe
it weakens my country.
So what was your point? I forgot, because I was ignoring your VEILED
threat...
Lastly, all who have written their support here for the troops and for GW
Bush and the administration policies have my admiration- you stand for what
you believe in, and you express it. You are engaging in the most important
freedom a man (or woman) can have- the freedom to express ideas. That's
exactly what I have been doing, even though some list members disagree with
me. I think it is the only way America (and man in general) can progress.
And if you think I'm Un-American for doing that... I don't know what to
say. I am astounded by such ignorance...
----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
> Bill
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Cole" <DavidCole@tk7.net>
> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 8:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [MV] The French
>
>
> > Excuse me! The last time I checked you were not the list moderator.
> >
> > I knew that your ranting was going down hill and you proved your
knowledge
> > by the last line in your message. You can sign off from the list
anytime
> > you like or hit the delete key like everyone else who doesn't want to
read
> > a thread. (That's the key that says D-E-L-E-T-E on the keyboard) If
that
> > doesn't work, do all of us a favor and pull the plug on your computer.
> >
> > > We elect our leaders with the expectation they will look out for us.
> >
> > First of all, G. Bush wasn't elected by the majority of Americans. He
> lost
> > the popular vote. He was voted in by the supreme court, remember?
> >
> > G. Bush want's us to shut up and keep on going while the country goes
down
> > the dumper with his obsession with Iraq. Iraq can't even launch a Piper
> > Cub without us tracking it via Radar. They can't point a radar antenna
at
> > a dog without us knowing about it. Comparisons to Hitler? Come on, the
> > guy is totally contained. Is Saddam a bad guy, sure. Him and about 50
> > other country leaders should go.
> >
> > > As such we must place out trust in them to do the right thing.
> >
> > Yeah right, George Bush has no interest in the Oil Companies, Nixon was
an
> > excellent president, and Bill Clinton was a real moral guy. Tell me
more,
> > you are just overflowing with wisdom, or is that...
> >
> > > Otherwise sit back and SHUT THE F@%K UP
> >
> > OK, now you have truly proved your intelligence. Yes, you have
certainly
> > impressed me. That's about as un-American as it gets. I'm sure Sadam
> > requests the same of the people under his thumb. Gosh, I guess you
> > probably think that you have leadership potential now. Do us all a
favor
> > and pull the plug!!!
> >
> > Flameproof Dave
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 09:40:46 -0500, Mugno, Anthony <AMugno@SITAAPS.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Oh yeah one more thing!!
> > >
> > > As for those Human shields who have gone over their. I applaud them.
> > > They
> > > stand out from the average Iraqi who is NOT there by choice. They
make
> > > damn
> > > good targets that can be easily be distinguished from the locals.
> > > I'll even help "paint" those targets maybe Saddam will use them to try
> to
> > > protect sensitive military sites hehehe
> > >
> > > We elect our leaders with the expectation they will look out for us.
As
> > > such we must place out trust in them to do the right thing. If you
are
> > > unhappy about the results of an election then get out their and
motivate
> > > more of your friends to vote next. Otherwise sit back and SHUT THE
F@%K
> > > UP
> > >
> > > That is All
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Glen Bedel [mailto:GBedel@designforum.com]
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:58 AM
> > > To: mil-veh@mil-veh.org
> > > Subject: Re: [MV] The French
> > >
> > >
> > > Typically a criminal in this country if told by the Police to drop
your
> > > weapons), you do as they say or suffer the consequences. There is
always
> > > no
> > > time to argue about time to disarm.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: John Seidts [mailto:jseidts@astory.com] Sent: Wednesday, March
12,
> > > 2003 8:51 AM
> > > To: mil-veh@mil-veh.org
> > > Subject: Re: [MV] The French
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > You are right about history, but remember whose father put Saddam in
> > > power, who funded the Mujaheddin and then dropped them like a hot
> potato,
> > > and who stood around while lots of muslims were ethnically cleansed in
> > > the
> > > Balkans. We also tolerated the Turkish solution to the "Kurd"
problem,
> > > which was to declare them terrorists (which they rightly were) and
kill
> > > lots
> > > of them, driving them into Iraq; now of course, they are our deepest
> > > concern.
> > > I think that my objection to this war is the one most of Europe has-
> > > give the disarmament a chance. If we let ourselves get into a
conflict
> > > where WMD is used, we are setting a precedent that has few borders.
> > > There
> > > is a strong Pan-Islamic movement in the middle east, whether we want
to
> > > admit to it or not, and I think us respectfully allowing a nation to
> > > choose
> > > its path is better in the long term than going to war. Not doing so
is
> > > to
> > > risk a spiraling security problem here in the US. Maybe not more
WTC's,
> > > but
> > > certainly more sniper incidents, Atlanta Olympic bombings, etc.
> Saddam's
> > > smoke in mirrors anyway-his day is coming due to his age. My
solution-
> > > just take the oil fields, and pump them while holding the money in
> > > escrow,
> > > less the cost of the occupation. Saddam will be gone in a year.
> > > The rest of the security council is just trying to make sure we are
> > > not bailing out our economy by going after the cheap oil in Iraq.
> > > Especially
> > > when our leaders are talking about possibly decades of occupation of
the
> > > country?
> > > Any how, this is only a prelude to what is going to happen with
> > > China. The worlds fastest growing economy is going to come into
> conflict
> > > with the worlds second longest standing rich economy, I'm sure. And
I'd
> > > rather have the hands clean on the part of the US before we get into
> that
> > > one. That is the real future conflict I am talking about. Anything
we
> > > do
> > > today that reverberates for 40 years (as a unilateral attack will do)
is
> > > something we need to consider very carefully. Colin Powell, the one I
> > > respect most out of our leadership right now, felt the same way. He
was
> > > told to toe the line...
> > > Then again, if our economy is in the tank as bad as they suspect it
> > > will go in the White House-then we need the cheap oil!!!
> > >
> > > I think you know what I am saying when I mention the term
> > > "wannabees." I think we are being pretty strongly propagandized right
> > > now,
> > > with the alerts, predictions of cost in fighting terrorism, etc. and
> > > those
> > > who are emotionally tied to military history are very quick to jump on
> > > the
> > > war band wagon. I am tied to it in the same way. But there are lots
of
> > > level heads out there, with much military experience, who are saying
to
> > > be
> > > cautious with this one; they realize that maybe this is not as
serious
> > > as
> > > we make it out to be. I am very concerned that we are being driven
down
> > > a
> > > road that has fewer forks in the future.
> > > We shouldn't be led there by wannabee power projectionists. If our
> > > administration thinks that we can send Madison Avenue to Europe,
Africa,
> > > the
> > > Middle East, and Asia and improve the US image while we are engaging
in
> > > hostile acts against Iraq, they are wrong. The world judges us not by
> > > the
> > > last two years of our history, but the last 40 years. Vietnam,
refusal
> > > to
> > > ship wheat to Russia during famines, indifference during African
> > > revolution
> > > and genocide, refusal to deal with the Indian Subcontinent crisis
(which
> > > is
> > > a MUCH more serious threat to world stability than Iraq, as far as I
am
> > > concerned-remember what nationality sells you your morning coffee
every
> > > day
> > > and what they could put in it), and corporate ventures into China's
> > > economy
> > > without end. We don't look good. There are countries out there that
> > > look
> > > at us as Germany was perceived during WWII, with great horror, but no
> > > real
> > > way to stop us. We are pretty much the strongest military nation on
> > > earth,
> > > and we need to wield that power carefully-that's for sure...
> > >
> > > We might be able to keep a billion muslims from uniting, or postpone
it
> > > for
> > > a while. But we might have trouble keeping a billion Hindu's, 2
billion
> > > Chinese, and a billion muslims from fighting us to a draw if we don't
> > > project our power wisely...
> > >
> > > Just a different point of view to think about...
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve & Jeanne Keith" <cckw@attbi.com>
> > > To: "John Seidts" <jseidts@astory.com>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2003 8:06 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [MV] The French
> > >
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > I should've mentioned that.
> > >>
> > >> Prolly yes
> > >>
> > >> > Of course, that rant by me, former US Army
> > >> > Special Forces for 10 years....
> > >>
> > >> Thank you for your service to this country!
> > >>
> > >> With all due respect though, battlefield/military
> > >> experience is 'wonderful' teacher, however history
> > >> is a better one IMHO
> > >>
> > >> Thanks again
> > >> Steve
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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> > > To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
> <mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
> > > To
> > > reach a human, contact <ack@mil-veh.org>
> > >
> > > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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> > > To switch to the DIGEST mode, send e-mail to
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> > >
> > > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dave
> >
> > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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<mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
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> >
>
>
>
> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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>
>
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