From: Steve & Jeanne Keith (cckw@comcast.net)
Date: Mon Sep 22 2003 - 13:09:52 PDT
Actually, all it takes is an accumulator tank, a check valve, a restricted
size orifice (for filling the Acc) and a solenoid valve to release the Acc
Steve AKA Dr Deuce.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Cole" <DavidCole@tk7.net>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 1:46 PM
Subject: Re: [MV] M35 dry start issue
> FWIW, the really big generator sets that Caterpillar makes also have
> prelube pumps on them. They start up the prelubers and let the oil
> pressure come up before the engines are cranked. This are the big 1
> megawatt plus gensets that come in a container the size of a semi trailer.
> I was told that was to avoid bearing failure during startup. Of course
the
> cranks on those engines weight tons, literally.
>
> When you think about it: What would be best - start and engine with no
oil
> pressure vs start and engine with full oil pressure. I think it becomes
> obvious which is best.
>
> It is normal to prelube newly assembled engines - especially race engines
> by attaching a drill motor to the oil pump drive and spinning oil pump
> until it reaches full pressure.
>
> Why aren't they more popular - I have no idea. My guess is that people
are
> ok with getting 140K miles out of their cars and they aren't willing to
pay
> more so they can go 250K miles.
>
> But what would it take to make up a preluber; a small hydraulic gear pump,
> a simple DC electric motor, a check valve, a switch, and a little bit of
> plumbing and wiring.
>
> Dave
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 05:19:03 -0400, James Shanks <n1vbn@bit-net.com>
wrote:
>
> > The reason for the electric oil pumps on railroad Diesels is to provide
> > a supply of oil to the bearings on the Turbocharger to cool the bearings
> > down for twenty minutes after shutdown when the oil pump would
> > automatically shutdown. This feature was usually negated when the
> > personal shutting down the engine would then immediately open the
battery
> > switch thereby shutting down the oil pump.
> >
> >
> > This is on GE and GM Railroad Diesels.
> >
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > At 12:33 AM 9/22/2003 -0500, Adam Suess wrote:
> >> I've read some where that a high % of engine where occurs at start up.
> >> Something like 70% or 80%. the way I understand it is that during
normal
> >> engine operation the bearings and other parts ride on a thin film of
oil
> >> and should not normally directly contact the two metal faces. when a
> >> engine sits for a bit much of the oil drains down and upon start up no
> >> film is present to prevent metal on metal contact. In the case of the
> >> multi fuel and other engines the oil also drains back out of the
filters
> >> and when started the pump must fill them up again before oil goes to
the
> >> moving parts. The difference in engine noise is some more rattling and
> >> also internal engine friction until the oil reaches it. I use to work
on
> >> the rail road and got this info from one of there diesel mechanics
after
> >> inquiring how they got there big diesels to last so many hrs. Also
> >> there is some issues of oil break down during operation due to high oil
> >> temps or over lugging the engine exceeding the pressures the oil can
> >> protect at. All second hand info to me but seems to make since. The
> >> Rail Road ran straight 50wt and the engine had oil pressure "electric
> >> pumps" before even cranking it to start they rarely shut it off any
way.
> >> I switched to semi synthetic oil myself because it is suppose to hold
to
> >> the parts better after shut down. Also tolerates higher temps and
> >> pressures or so they advertise. I did note a significant drop in full
> >> load oil temp switching from Shell Rotella T to Cenex Maxtron DEO in my
> >> tractors as well as easier cranking. Lighter engine loads I saw little
> >> or no change in oil temp. The Mack engine in my M54A1 takes quite a
> >> while to get pressure and sounds much different once it does also.
> >>
> >> Adam Suess
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Marc Strangfeld <curlyjoe98@yahoo.com>
> >>> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [MV] M35 dry start issue
> >>> Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 07:50:35 -0700 (PDT)
> >>>
> >>> Don't forget...oil pressure is needed to lube more
> >>> than just the turbo. I don't rev it up either. Can
> >>> anyone else notice a change in engine sound once oil
> >>> pressure is restored? I'll look into the preluber
> >>> idea. However maybe Jon is right in saying I don't
> >>> need to worry. What does everyone else think? I
> >>> sense an interesting tech article in Military Vehicles
> >>> Magazine...Bjorn?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Marc
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- Jon Shoop <shoop19@brick.net> wrote:
> >>> > I dont think think is a problem.....I know the turbo
> >>> > has a pocket for oil to
> >>> > rest after shutdown......just dont rev it up...wait
> >>> > the 10 seconds for oip
> >>> > pressure to come up.........
> >>> >
> >>> > Jon
> >>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>> > From: "Marc Strangfeld" <curlyjoe98@yahoo.com>
> >>> > To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List"
> >>> > <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> >>> > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 1:43 AM
> >>> > Subject: [MV] M35 dry start issue
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > > I'm wondering what other's thoughts are on the
> >>> > long
> >>> > > delay in getting oil pressure on the multifuel
> >>> > engine.
> >>> > > I crank my engine with the fuel shut off for a
> >>> > few
> >>> > > seconds thinking it may help. Am I worrying for
> >>> > no
> >>> > > reason and/or burning up my starter? Does anyone
> >>> > know
> >>> > > of a way to prelube the engine or change the
> >>> > filter
> >>> > > configuration to keep them from draining?
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Thanks
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Marc
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> > > __________________________________
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
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> >
> > James Shanks
> > n1vbn@bit-net.com
> > 1998 IMZ 8.103
> > 1984 H-D FLHT-C
> >
> >
> >
> > ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list===
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<mil-veh-digest@mil-veh.org>
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Dave
>
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