From: Sonny Heath (sonny@defuniak.com)
Date: Sat Jan 01 2005 - 17:36:15 PST
I enjoyed reading your post Bill, Thanks!
Sonny
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Kealey" <cwkealey@atlanticbb.net>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>; "Sonny Heath"
<sonny@defuniak.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 5:55 PM
Subject: OFF TOPIC: Was heading for the scales _ lengthy _ DELETE NOW
> Hello Sonny and the rest of the gang,
>
> I partially agree with what you commented on about LEO's not knowing their
> job and also the comment about LEO's being asked questions.
>
> More has to be considered, IMHO, as a retired LEO.
>
> I admit that I NEVER knew everything about the job. I often was asked
> questions that I did not know the answer to or wasn't Positive that I knew
> the answer.
>
> I am not embarassed or ashamed of that.
>
> I am pleased to admit that I can read and having the books with me Most of
> the time for the type of enforcement that I worked in was a big help. I
> also took the persons name, phone number and address so that I could find
> out the answer and then get back in touch with them. If they didn't want
to
> give the information to me, no problem, I always carried my business cards
> (purchased then later made by yours truly as my agency would not pay for
> them) and gave them out with my home phone number and when I obtained one
> the e-mail addresses both home and at work. Then when I found out the
> information, I contacted the person and gave it to them.
>
> But, if I was in a situation where I was writing a ticket (my
> jurisdiction/agency called them citations and written warnings) I had
better
> be right or I had to answer for it with my supervisor. As a rookie, I
> learned very quickly not to write things when I didn't know for sure that
I
> was right. My sergeant made me go to the person that I issued the
citation
> to and apoligize. I also had to go to court and explain to a judge as
well
> as the entire population of the court room that I had written the citation
> in error and politely ask the judge to void the citation. You see, in my
> agency every citation was a criminal charge. Therefore, we did not have
the
> authority, nor did anyone else in the department, to void the citation
once
> the defendant signed his/her name to it. In some instances we could ask
the
> States Attorney void the citation but that did not always work either. I
> found that I would rather err on the side of the person who I was
> considering issuing a citation to. But that was how I did things.
>
> Others did things differently.
>
> And, to comment on Many others opinions about ticking off the officer ...
> absolutely be, if you can't handle nice, at least polite or curtious. I
> also found out dealing with the public that it is always better to start
out
> friendly as it is easy to escalate the situation. But it is extremely
> difficult to take an already bad situation and make it nice.
>
> Most situations, IMHO, the officer has a certain amount of choice as to
how
> to handle the violation or other situation. Granted this is not always
the
> case but usually in my experience anyway, the officer has the authority to
> make judgement calls. I personally did not like issuing citations and
> preferred to issue warnings. Warnings did just as much and didn't cost
> anything other than the cost of printing them. Only some of the
violations
> where written warnings were issued showed up in the computer system later
> ... this was intentional based on the type of violation. We had some,
very
> limited, laws where there were no discretionary options for the officer
and
> citations had to be issued. In those cases we could vary the fine using
> creative writing techniques if the supervisor wasn't around and in many
> cases I wrote the minimum fine possible in others attitude certainly
entered
> into play and the fine was the maximum or somewhere in between. Some
people
> just refuse to cooperate and have a chip on their shoulders on both sides
of
> the fence. There were truly wonderfully nice, polite people whom I had no
> choice but to issue citations to them and I asked them to appear in court.
> If they did, I commented at the end of the trial but before sentencing, if
> found guilty, about their attitudes. This more often than not got the
fines
> reduced or dropped and jail times dropped. Many of the officers whom I
> worked with did the same things, that's how I learned to do these things.
> Because in the Police Academy we were taught to write citations and few
> warnings, all people are bad and lots of other things that the officers in
> the field had to clear out of newly appointed officers. Some, never
learned
> to be nice. But, again, that's in every business, community, group and
the
> such. Some people are nice and agreeable and others just aren't. Some
who
> are normally nice have bad days, I certainly did and did my best to make
up
> for it. That did not always work either.
>
> I guess what I am dragging this on and on and on about is to finally say
> that if you ask politely a question of any officer and the answer isn't
what
> you think it is ... rather than be angry or discourtious ... ask the
officer
> to show you in the law and explain it as written. Some, quite frankly
won't
> do it and some probably can't do it. Next step is to ask them to get you
a
> copy of the law or at least tell you the section of the law so that you
can
> look it up yourself. Most librarys as well as the Internet have the
> Federal, State and Local laws available for free. The problem is finding
> where to look in the many books.
>
> Oh, yeah, to get back to what I wrote first here, the law books that I had
> to carry with me were only a small part of the laws that I enforced
because
> my agencies officers are empowerd to enforce ALL of the laws of the State
of
> Maryland and as deputy federal officers many also had to enforce certain
> federal laws. I had to carry a gym bag and brief case with me filled up
> with large and small books about laws. My home also had a bunch of law
> books that I would look through in my spare time to help the public as I
did
> not have an office to report to every day and only got to the office once
or
> twice a month. On good months I skipped the office altogether as evil
> creatures dwell there, like supervisors. <grin>
>
> AND, our laws changed so often that there was no way that I could keep up
> with the changes. I did not enforce truck stuff, though I had the
> authority, just never the reason to. I did stop a tractor trailer truck
> without the trailer one night (out of a total of almost 25 years of LE)
only
> because it was a really dark night and heavy rain. I almost ran into him
as
> he had not checked his lights before setting off and None of the tail or
> brake lights were working. I could have written him several citations (we
> did have motor vehicle citations along with our own criminal citations)
but
> instead just gave him a verbal warning then followed him home to make sure
> he got there without anyone running into him.
>
> Please ask the officer questions, that is why they are there. I always
> preferred to answer a question before someone got into trouble rather than
> have to stop them for violating the law and then tell them what was wrong.
>
> Bill Kealey
> MVPA 24623
> 1954 USMC M38A1
> 1972 USA M35A2
> 1985 USAF M105A2
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sonny Heath" <sonny@defuniak.com>
> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
> Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 17:04
> Subject: Re: [MV] Heading for the scales, now open...
>
>
> > For the most part you are right but it gets on my nerves when a LEO
don't
> > know his job and can't answer questions. I disagree totally with the
> > thought that a LEO shouldn't be asked a question.
> >
> > Sonny
>
>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat May 07 2005 - 20:39:25 PDT