From: Sonny Heath (sonny@defuniak.com)
Date: Wed Mar 30 2005 - 12:52:33 PST
I agree 100%
Sonny
----- Original Message -----
From: "MV" <MV@dc9.tzo.com>
To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 9:33 AM
Subject: Re: [MV] Anti-GL site (Here's a preview)
> Regardless as to whether or not this and that is in the TOS, if it is
> wrong, it is wrong. And we have a legal right to bitch about what is
> wrong. GL is acting above the legal norm and they can do that because
> they are a monopoly granted by the US government. They have no
> competition. Hence forth they need to be treated like a monoply and
> regulated by the same US government. The US government is suppose to be
> controlled by the people - and that would be US!
>
> Dave
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> Wayne Harris wrote:
>> You wrote "I was totally unaware of that GL policy about not being able
>> to use this option or else! GL's response was its in the TOS, more like
>> it's buried somewhere in the pages of TOS!"
>>
>> I don't know if I would mention that part, if you plan on presenting your
>> case to your elected officials, while I'm not a lawyer I do have a
>> extensive background of watching Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown, the Texas
>> guy and the like :-)) and as soon as you tell them, Well I signed the
>> contract but I didn't read it, you hear them say case dismissed!
>>
>> As far as I know on writing on a contract you can put anything you like
>> in one and it is enforceable as long as it is not something illegal by a
>> state or Federal law.
>>
>> Both ebay and paypal has in their TOS if you do something they don't like
>> they can ban you for life.
>>
>> On your website idea that is great, check out www.paypalsucks.com they
>> have been operating for years against paypal.
>>
>> FYI Paypal and G/L must get their office personal from the same place.
>> Good luck, Wayne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Patrick Jankowiak <recycler@swbell.net>
>>> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [MV] Anti-GL site (Here's a preview)
>>> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:38:06 -0600
>>>
>>> Do it. They can do nothing as long as you go no farther than 'fair use',
>>> and the web page is truthful. There is no wrong which can be done by
>>> people offering their opinions on the WWW. What are they going to do,
>>> send the french army to get you? or the black helicopters? (if they are
>>> GL helos, they won't be flightworthy.. heh.)
>>>
>>> Mil-Veh Co. wrote:
>>>
>>>> When you read the following it is intended to be the
>>>> first page introduction and it will have some GL like
>>>> logo stuff and resemble in a way the GL site, just to
>>>> give you the picture of what you are in for... of
>>>> course this is just a sample of what we could do, you
>>>> guys may have better ideas. Your comments will be
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> I know there is some risk that the evil GL will try
>>>> some legal scare tactics, but we need to stand fast
>>>> because we are right. GL is an arrogant giant and has
>>>> ruined the experience of buying surplus for many of
>>>> us. OK here goes:
>>>>
>>>> This pro-consumer, "anti- Government Liquidations"
>>>> site was created to expose the nightmare of doing
>>>> business "GL" way.
>>>>
>>>> Post your complaints, troubles, fraud stories,
>>>> lawsuits, and other dissatisfaction in the forums.
>>>> Read the faq pages for help in resolving your GL
>>>> troubles and complaints.
>>>>
>>>> To enumerate the complaints:
>>>>
>>>> 1. According to GL accepting their ToS (Terms of
>>>> Service) in effect means you waive your rights to
>>>> credit card consumer protection laws if you want to
>>>> use their service, and that you may not issue a
>>>> chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card
>>>> and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the
>>>> right to permanently ban you from their site! Is this
>>>> legal? We don't know, but it's how GL operates. See
>>>> GL's TOS for more information, its in there, but you
>>>> practically have to be a Philidelphia lawyer to find
>>>> it..If you have a problem with "GL" or they feel your
>>>> actions are questionable, then GL is the investigator,
>>>> judge, jury and executioner. "Telling your side" of
>>>> what happened, in most cases seems to be irrelevant
>>>> and is met with a stonewall corporate attitude. Try
>>>> to get the details of their investigation or documents
>>>> they relied upon to make their decisions, ha!
>>>>
>>>> 2. Their customer service is horrible. They make you
>>>> call on their dime to resolve problems they caused. Once you get there
>>>> expect the process to be tedious,
>>>> fraught with obstruction and you likely get bounced
>>>> around from person to person. If that was not bad
>>>> enough, chances are you will get zip, just a lecture
>>>> on why it's YOUR FAULT.
>>>>
>>>> If you feel you have been treated unfairly by this
>>>> corporation, you need not feel alone, nor helpless. This time the
>>>> "little guy" is taking a stand against
>>>> this huge monopoly. Like you, we're fed up with
>>>> "Government Liquidations" arrogance, rudeness and
>>>> highly questionable business practices. If these tactics were done by
>>>> you or your small
>>>> business operation, you would would soon be out of
>>>> business, however GL's doesn't have to worry about
>>>> customer satisfaction because they are the only game
>>>> in town, so to speak.
>>>>
>>>> GL has a monopoly on a good deal of the US military
>>>> surplus they are selling around the world. The loss
>>>> of a few hundred customers due their shoddy behavior
>>>> is no big deal. They know there are thousands of
>>>> others who will take the place of those angry
>>>> customers because buyers are virtually forced to do
>>>> business with them or do without. So, you to do it
>>>> their way or no way and if they are wrong you better
>>>> just get over it or you're not going to be doing
>>>> business with them again. Apparently GL never heard
>>>> of, "The customer is always right." Now it's more
>>>> like "GL is always right!"
>>>>
>>>> Case in point, awhile back I had been buying surplus
>>>> on a fairly regular basis from GL. Since their suplus
>>>> pickup points vary with individual auctions and times,
>>>> I occassionally had to wait weeks, sometime even
>>>> months if a release form was needed from the
>>>> government. Then I would make my rounds and retrieve
>>>> the items I bought, so far so good.
>>>>
>>>> This worked for a time, then one day I was told some
>>>> property I had bought thru GL had been placed back
>>>> into "inventory" and resold without any notice to me! I think about 5-6
>>>> weeks had passed from the time I
>>>> bought it and when they resold it. Seems how long
>>>> they hold property changes from location to location
>>>> and it depends on who you know.
>>>>
>>>> This was a stunner and the lack of courtesy involved
>>>> left me feeling pretty flat. Heck, I was a pretty
>>>> good customer and I knew many people at the site where
>>>> the property was warehoused. Is that legal to resell
>>>> already sold and paid for property without noice to
>>>> the buyer? I don't know, but it sure is unethical. It's not like they
>>>> couldn't contact me, they had all
>>>> sorts of email, phone and address information on me
>>>> from my many prior contacts.
>>>> I protested of course this VISA charge and they said
>>>> they would take it under consideration. Well, weeks
>>>> passed and nothing happened. I made several more
>>>> frustrated inquiries and felt like I was just getting
>>>> the runaround. Finally, I decided to protest the
>>>> charge made to my card with VISA and see what happens.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was totally unaware of that GL policy about not
>>>> being able to use this option or else! GL's response
>>>> was its in the TOS, more like it's buried somewhere in
>>>> the pages of TOS!
>>>> When I did file a complaint with VISA and GL became
>>>> aware of it, I was bluntly informed by them that
>>>> filing such a protest was akin to "thievery" in their opinion and I was
>>>> now forbidden from using GL's
>>>> auction for life. Of course at the time of this
>>>> incident GL held all the cards. I never got my
>>>> property, they threatened to keep my money, they
>>>> dragged their feet on making a decision to refund it
>>>> and they had the audacity to say I was a thief for
>>>> protesting this charge? No rational appeal was welcomed by GL,
>>>> although I
>>>> really tried. I laid it all out on the phone and in
>>>> writing and I got precisely nowhere. Funny, this
>>>> whole thing could have been avoided if they had just
>>>> notified me before reselling my property. That was
>>>> pretty rude! Or if they had responded in a timely
>>>> manner for my request for a refund of my money.
>>>> Well, they wouldn't budge, it was all my fault
>>>> according them and they got pretty nasty with me,
>>>> reminding me of what a terrible thing I had done to
>>>> protest the VISA charge. The audacity of that poor
>>>> treatment still raises my blood pressure.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I finally did get a refund from GL when they got
>>>> around to it, but I also got the boot for simply doing
>>>> what the VISA card says I can legally do, according to
>>>> my cards TOS! Well, never mind the vendor VISA
>>>> contract agreement either, apparently GL is big enough
>>>> to get away with NOT abiding by the rules most others
>>>> must.
>>>>
>>>> VISA said they would not revoke their vendors account
>>>> because of this practice, never got a clear reason
>>>> why.
>>>> This was ONLY one incident, but since then I have
>>>> conversed with my friends on the internet and found
>>>> many other stories of what I consider to be "consumer
>>>> abuse." I would like you to read some of those
>>>> stories as time permits that I can post them here.
>>>> UPDATE: I've heard GL is actually a French owned
>>>> business with many of their top execs are NOT
>>>> Americans which seems odd since this is US government
>>>> military surplus we are talking about here. I'm
>>>> looking into this part and if its true I am going to
>>>> ask my Congressman why isn't an all American business handling American
>>>> surplus? And why isn't their some
>>>> sort of appeal mechanism for disatisfied customers
>>>> like me? Seems like fair questions to me and I'll let
>>>> you know what I find out as soon as I can.
>>>> Till then, I urge anyone doing business with "GL" to
>>>> "read the fine print" and be very careful about what
>>>> you are buying and the local terms and conditions,
>>>> which can vary widely. Make sure you inspect the
>>>> item/s if at all possible to prevent a switch. Have
>>>> something in writing about when you intend to pickup
>>>> your property too, so the kind of incident I had
>>>> doesn't happen to you. I guess I trusted GL too much
>>>> and took too much for granted as I couldn't envision
>>>> them doing what they did...well, live and learn. But,
>>>> it's not over because I want people to know the kind
>>>> of stuff GL is doing to people and when you read the
>>>> reports from other customers here, you'll really
>>>> appreciate my warnings. Who knows maybe we will have
>>>> enough clout to effect some positive change at GL?
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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