From: Dan Maguire (dmaguire@mchsi.com)
Date: Tue Dec 13 2005 - 16:20:51 PST
Hi Dave and all,
The following link is to the Budd lug nut picture that Dave referred to...
http://dmaguire.home.mchsi.com/BuddLugNut.jpg
Thanks Dave.
And to keep my ISP busy, here is a link to a video of a test where an
http://dmaguire.home.mchsi.com/concreteplane1.wmv
Finally, unrelated to everything MV, here is a video of an officer
http://dmaguire.home.mchsi.com/accidentcop.wmv
The videos are both 1.5MB for you dialup guys.
BR,
Dave Sofio wrote:
F-4 is rammed into a concrete block wall built to Nuclear Regulatory
Agency specs...
stopping to check on a traffic stop in progress. The activity draws the
attention of a passing motorist with bad results. By all accounts,
everyone was fine. Hard to believe, though...
Dan
> Dan,
>
> Thanks for your offer to host the image. See attached.
> Two other listers also were interested (cc'd), so I don't feel as much
> like a problem child now.
>
> Sean (armytrucks): thanks again for the artwork! Your work is
> developing a fan club...
>
> Mahalo,
>
> Dave
>
> dmaguire@mchsi.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Dave,
>>
>> If you send me the image, I can host it and post the image to the group.
>>
>> Take care,
>> Dan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Sean, J, and all the others who helped incrementally. My slim
>>> experience with duallies (a passenger-size tow-truck, my old Iveco
>>> van, my Dodge RAM) never suggested to me that there was a more
>>> advanced [or at least harder-to-disassemble] system out there.
>>>
>>> The missing bit of communication was a good description of the Budd
>>> lug: the "cap nut" (indeed this is the manual and parts book
>>> description) is more like a threaded...er...condom...threads are inside
>>> and out, so it completely COVERS the inner stud, thereby allowing the
>>> rounded shoulder to push/retain the inner wheel to the "real" stud...so
>>> it would never have occurred to me that the "real" stud is actually
>>> smaller and hidden within the cap nut.
>>>
>>> Sean Nichols sent me a GREAT photo of a lug complete with ID labels,
>>> key thing being that it was shot at such an angle that the threaded
>>> hole in the "condom" is visible (unlike the shot I'd found on the
>>> web). I don't think attachments can be accepted/visible on the list,
>>> but I did get it directly & it explains things perfectly. I needed
>>> this explanation to understand and be prepared to deal with this away
>>> from home soon, since on the road I am an Army of One/can't rely on
>>> soldier #2 to help!
>>>
>>> Mahalo,
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> J wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dave,
>>>> See the conical base on that jobbie? That is what holds the inner
>>>> wheel onto the hub. There are probably a billion heavy trucks out
>>>> there that use this, both commercially and military.
>>>> The pictured Budd lug you show is not called a stud, so the
>>>> manual would not call it that. All you need to change any of the
>>>> wheels on a deuce or 5T is the one double ended wrench and a long
>>>> metal rod to turn it. See this:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dave Sofio wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> J,
>>>>> Don't worry, I spend too much of my paychecks on tools; I just
>>>>> don't have any standard-issue tools for the M51. I'd pre-busted
>>>>> the 1-1/2" lug nuts with a rattle gun while I was within hose-range
>>>>> of my compressor on the very steep slope in front of my place, to
>>>>> make sure I could get them off manually at the remote (flat)
>>>>> location where I'd planned to do the wheel-swap. I only brought
>>>>> minimal tools to the remote, flat location to do the wheel
>>>>> work...that didn't get done...
>>>>>
>>>>> To all who wrote:
>>>>> To be contrary, TM 9-2320-211-10 (OPERATOR'S MANUAL FOR TRUCK,
>>>>> 5-TON, 6X6, M39 SERIES) page 3-42 ("3-14. Wheel and Tire
>>>>> Replacement") makes no mention of removing studs or of using
>>>>> square-drive for the purpose of wheel replacement. Why not, if
>>>>> this is indeed necessary?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not that I think this is a conspiracy to see if I will actually
>>>>> remove the studs for no reason...(you wouldn't all be that
>>>>> cruel...could you?) but I do wonder if this is a model difference
>>>>> or some such, compared what everyone else is familiar with,
>>>>> especially now that I am looking at the documentation. To remove
>>>>> the Budd lugs, I'd first have to go buy something to drive the
>>>>> square-ends of the studs. Then to do the work, I'll again have to
>>>>> go drive the truck somewhere that's got room and somewhat flat,
>>>>> where I will not have any surprise-tool-needs nearby, nor
>>>>> compressed air, and sure don't want to get into that unless it's a
>>>>> sure thing and I'm fully equipped.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wheel removal method is not 100% clear even from the manual. In
>>>>> the same section, the manual states: "([step]8) Remove cap nuts
>>>>> ([item]6) to remove inner wheel," (note: says "nuts," not studs,
>>>>> Budd lugs, etc., & no reference elsewhere to removing studs,
>>>>> square-drive, etc). Big problem with that particular instruction
>>>>> is the adjacent illustrated item [6] cannot be seen, as it falls
>>>>> within a sea of black ink that once was a drawing of the tire and
>>>>> rim... it didn't reproduce well in the electronic version, so I am
>>>>> not sure what they are describing. Other drawings in that section
>>>>> might or might not be using that same item number, and they are
>>>>> pointing to what look like ordinary lug nuts. I'd expect that if
>>>>> studs are to be removed there would certainly be mention of it,
>>>>> considering the level of detail on other tasks in this section.
>>>>> And when looking at them, I can see no evidence that the studs even
>>>>> COULD be retaining the wheels.
>>>>>
>>>>> The attached is a photo of a Budd lug (not mine), not necessarily
>>>>> identical to those on the M51, but looking a lot like what one
>>>>> lister described. From this also, I can't see how removing these
>>>>> would release my inners. Is this not of the type y'all are
>>>>> describing?
>>>>> A section-view or exploded view of the dual-wheel and hub assembly
>>>>> would sure be worth 1000 words...or I could actually just explode
>>>>> mine and be done with it...
>>>>>
>>>>> Mahalo,
>>>>>
>>>>> Dave
>>>>>
>>>>> J wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>> Sooner or later you're going to need a bunch of tools from
>>>>>> Harbor Freight or elsewhere. One of them is a socket set that
>>>>>> includes the 1.5 inch hex socket and the 7/8(or whatever it is)
>>>>>> square drive socket. These are standard items for all big trucks.
>>>>>> The mil uses a 1 foot long double ended lug wrench that you stick
>>>>>> a very long rod into to get these things apart. Standard
>>>>>> tightening torque for the 5ton is 400 ft-lbs, if I recall. Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Sofio wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> uhhh...lug wrench? not sure I've even got one. Is there a
>>>>>>> well-hidden location where one might find this shining technical
>>>>>>> marvel? The behind-the-cab toolbox (M51 dump) is long gone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But even on close inspection, I couldn't see how the studs might
>>>>>>> hold the "inners" in place. The stud threads end just outside
>>>>>>> the newly-exposed part of the inner rim dish, & there is no
>>>>>>> change in stud diameter visible, so it's hard to imagine how the
>>>>>>> studs would work to keep the inners in place. But I'll take
>>>>>>> three...make that four now... people's word for it & try to come
>>>>>>> up with a facsimile for a square-drive lug wrench, and see what
>>>>>>> loosens.
>>>>>>> Maybe this IS worth a look through the 800 files on my CD...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for the replies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --Dave
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hutterer, John (MPAU) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dave,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This may sound dumb, but...you are aware that the inner wheels
>>>>>>>> are held
>>>>>>>> on with their own lug nuts? That's what the square drive socket
>>>>>>>> is for
>>>>>>>> on the other end of the lug wrench. Left hand thread on left
>>>>>>>> side, if I
>>>>>>>> remember correctly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Military Vehicles Mailing List
>>>>>>>> [mailto:mil-veh@mil-veh.org] On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Dave Sofio
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, December 12, 2005 12:49 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Military Vehicles Mailing List
>>>>>>>> Subject: [MV] easy 5-ton question
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is SO basic I don't even think I would find it on my
>>>>>>>> documentation
>>>>>>>> CD...anyway, I've got a dead inner dually that I tried to swap
>>>>>>>> with my
>>>>>>>> spare yesterday, while away from home & preferred tools. Lug
>>>>>>>> nuts came
>>>>>>>> off OK, and I wrestled the outer wheel off with some effort, but
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> inner is locked on with...what? Rust? Paint? Krazy glue? Unseen
>>>>>>>> fasteners? If I'd had a second jack, I'd have used it to try to
>>>>>>>> force
>>>>>>>> the thing off. Levers, whacking with a hammer-like
>>>>>>>> field-improvised
>>>>>>>> tool, and copious swearing all failed to remove it. Am I missing
>>>>>>>> anything?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Maybe it's good I didn't have my sledge with me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --Dave
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ===Mil-Veh is a member-supported mailing list=== To unsubscribe,
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>>>>>>>> http://www.mil-veh.org/archives/
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