Re: [MV] Cutvee vs. HUMMV?

Chief William von Zehle (ChiefvonZehle@wiltonfire.org)
Thu, 19 Nov 1998 12:30:48 -0400

Chief William von Zehle wrote:
>
> I've had some "first hand" experience with both CUCV and HMMWV in my Army
> Reserve special operations unit.
>
> Immediately after cease-fire in Gulf War, my four man team was sent from near
> Basra, Iraq to Rafha, KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) to co-ordinate the
> construction of a new refugee camp inside KSA ("Rafha 2"). (The original
> Rafha camp 1 was inside Iraq.) We slept on the floor of the Rafha airport (it
> wasn't much, but it beat the 81 days sleeping in the sand without a shower we
> did prior to it!) and "commuted" the 20 miles to Rafha 1. We had one M1008
> CUCV (Chevy pickup) and one M998 four door HMMWV.
>
> The "road" to Rafha 1 was a track that went through everything was "talcum
> powder-like" sand to rocky hills. The best time we could make in the CUCV was
> about an hour. In the HMMWV, I had the record time of 22 minutes! While I
> feel the HMMWVs are too wide for the streets of Europe, they're GREAT off-road
> vehicles. My major complaint is with the rearview mirrors. The new
> "improved" ones cause a huge blind spot at the "A" pillars. In addition,
> they're now attached to the windshield post (the original ones attached to the
> body), so when the windshield is folded down (common in combat situations),
> the mirrors are unusable. It's hard enough backing up with a trailer since
> the truck's so wide, but without mirrors it's really tough.
>
> In addition, we suffered far more mechanical problems with the CUCVs in our
> company than with the HMMWVs. Our CUCV had three broken shocks, two flat
> tires (ever try removing and replacing a tubeless tire off a rim in the desert
> ?!!), and numerous trim pieces that either broke or fell off. The air
> cleaners required cleaning at least daily, while the HMMWV could go several
> days if needed (we checked them daily). (The shrapnel that went through the
> tailgate, "B" post and vinyl cargo top don't count.) The HMMWV suffered only
> one flat tire and the "run flat" mode got us back to Rafha airport where the
> motor pool guys "helped" me change it. (They handed me the lug wrench!)
>
> During the ground war, my team was assigned to the 3rd Armored Division (2/77
> Armored Bn.). The weather was generally rainy and the sand turned to mud.
> The CUCV got stuck several times but the HMMWV never got stuck. (I was in the
> process of being pulled out of an area of deep mud by an M577 command track
> when we got involved in a running tank battle with the Republican Guards.
> There's nothing like being towed around by a tow cable behind a "track" taking
> evasive maneuvers!)
>
> All in all, the CUCV performed just like a civilian pickup truck. It did
> "okay" if the conditions weren't too rough. The HMMWV performed like a champ
> in all conditions. I still feel it's too wide, but when the next deployment
> comes, I'd certainly want a HMMWV, not a CUCV. (By the way, we left all our
> CUCVs in "Saudi" and replaced them with M998A1 HMMWVs when we returned to the
> USA. They've subsequently deployed with us to Bosnia where they again did
> well in the field, but were still too wide for the cities.)
>
> Hope the above is of use. If possible, I'd be interested in reading what your
> research paper comes up with.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bill von Zehle
> SFC, 411th CA Bn
> USASOC
>
> Shane G Deemer wrote:
>
> > Any military types out there have any experience with the Cutvee and/or
> > HUMMV? I'm working on a reasearch paper (for school) comparing the two, and
> > would appreciate some first hand experience stories to add to my paper.
> >
> > Thanks for your time.
> > --
> > -Shane
> >
> > *****************************
> > Military Rails Online
> > http://military.railfan.net
> > *****************************
> >
> > ===
> > To unsubscribe from the mil-veh mailing list, send the single word
> > UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of a message to <mil-veh-request@skylee.com>.
I've had some "first hand" experience with both CUCV and HMMWV in my Army
Reserve special operations unit.

Immediately after cease-fire in Gulf War, my four man team was sent from near
Basra, Iraq to Rafha, KSA (Kingdom of Saudi Arabia) to co-ordinate the
construction of a new refugee camp inside KSA ("Rafha 2"). (The original
Rafha camp 1 was inside Iraq.) We slept on the floor of the Rafha airport (it
wasn't much, but it beat the 81 days sleeping in the sand without a shower we
did prior to it!) and "commuted" the 20 miles to Rafha 1. We had one M1008
CUCV (Chevy pickup) and one M998 four door HMMWV.

The "road" to Rafha 1 was a track that went through everything was "talcum
powder-like" sand to rocky hills. The best time we could make in the CUCV was
about an hour. In the HMMWV, I had the record time of 22 minutes! While I
feel the HMMWVs are too wide for the streets of Europe, they're GREAT off-road
vehicles. My major complaint is with the rearview mirrors. The new
"improved" ones cause a huge blind spot at the "A" pillars. In addition,
they're now attached to the windshield post (the original ones attached to the
body), so when the windshield is folded down (common in combat situations),
the mirrors are unusable. It's hard enough backing up with a trailer since
the truck's so wide, but without mirrors it's really tough.

In addition, we suffered far more mechanical problems with the CUCVs in our
company than with the HMMWVs. Our CUCV had three broken shocks, two flat
tires (ever try removing and replacing a tubeless tire off a rim in the desert
?!!), and numerous trim pieces that either broke or fell off. The air
cleaners required cleaning at least daily, while the HMMWV could go several
days if needed (we checked them daily). (The shrapnel that went through the
tailgate, "B" post and vinyl cargo top don't count.) The HMMWV suffered only
one flat tire and the "run flat" mode got us back to Rafha airport where the
motor pool guys "helped" me change it. (They handed me the lug wrench!)

During the ground war, my team was assigned to the 3rd Armored Division (2/77
Armored Bn.). The weather was generally rainy and the sand turned to mud.
The CUCV got stuck several times but the HMMWV never got stuck. (I was in the
process of being pulled out of an area of deep mud by an M577 command track
when we got involved in a running tank battle with the Republican Guards.
There's nothing like being towed around by a tow cable behind a "track" taking
evasive maneuvers!)

All in all, the CUCV performed just like a civilian pickup truck. It did
"okay" if the conditions weren't too rough. The HMMWV performed like a champ
in all conditions. I still feel it's too wide, but when the next deployment
comes, I'd certainly want a HMMWV, not a CUCV. (By the way, we left all our
CUCVs in "Saudi" and replaced them with M998A1 HMMWVs when we returned to the
USA. They've subsequently deployed with us to Bosnia where they again did
well in the field, but were still too wide for the cities.)

Hope the above is of use. If possible, I'd be interested in reading what your
research paper comes up with.

Regards,

Bill von Zehle
SFC, 411th CA Bn
USASOC

Shane G Deemer wrote:

> Any military types out there have any experience with the Cutvee and/or
> HUMMV? I'm working on a reasearch paper (for school) comparing the two, and
> would appreciate some first hand experience stories to add to my paper.
>
> Thanks for your time.
> --
> -Shane
>
> *****************************
> Military Rails Online
> http://military.railfan.net
> *****************************
>
> ===
> To unsubscribe from the mil-veh mailing list, send the single word
> UNSUBSCRIBE in the body of a message to <mil-veh-request@skylee.com>.

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