From: Steve Grammont (islander@midmaine.com)
Date: Sun Aug 29 2004 - 16:09:10 PDT
Agreed. Keep it off list, please. Not unless you want to see a diatribe
from me about how relevant I think the ramblings of a convicted felon who
peed all over the US Constitution is to the health and well being of the
USA. Or what my thoughts are on the record of a National Guard AWOL, war
avoiding coke head party boy compares to someone who actually served his
country (even if for "4 months").
Steve
>Spare us this stuff for gods sake, its mind numbing in its dullness.
>Along with many of the esteemed readers of this bugle I don't give a toss
>whether or not Kerry fought for the Germans in the far east or is a former
>porn star. If it aunt about military vehicles its in the wrong
>trench.......... please desist before we unleash Boris Johnson on you all.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Royce C Hayes" <rc_hayes1@juno.com>
>To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:28 AM
>Subject: [MV] Fw: OT Political: Bring it on, John!!!
>
>
>> ----- Forwarded Message -----
>>
>> Bring it on, John
>>
>> Oliver North (archive)
>>
>> August 27, 2004
>>
>> "Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question my
>> service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack
>> group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our
>> service in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John Kerry
>>
>> Dear John Kerry,
>>
>> As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George
>> Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your
>> military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who served
>> honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the
>> president, made the centerpiece of this campaign.
>>
>> I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals or
>> how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I
>> only have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I
>> could stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might
>> agree with me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers
>> always got more medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never
>> got as many medals as they deserved.
>>
>> This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either,
>> John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home. There
>> are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who did
>> a full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young
>> Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war
>> because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job isn't
>> finished."
>>
>> Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968.
>> Heck John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say
>> so. Your campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't
>> in Cambodia that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president
>> when you thought he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how
>> you could have all that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory --
>> especially since you want to have your finger on our nation's nuclear
>> trigger.
>>
>> But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having,
>> John, isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or
>> even Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home,
>> John.
>>
>> When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and
>> wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and
>> were still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of
>> all, John, you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam --
>> of committing terrible crimes and atrocities.
>>
>> On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations
>> Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally
>> raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones
>> to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up
>> bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent
>> of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and
>> generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted on
>> television that "yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as
>> thousands of other soldiers have committed."
>>
>> And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any other
>> body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of
>> prisoners, the killing of prisoners."
>>
>> Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us
>> carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And
>> for those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who
>> suffered the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of
>> American prisoners of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them
>> endured because of you, John:
>>
>> Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody
>> when he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says
>> that for his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be
>> punished." He wasn't released until March 14, 1973.
>>
>> Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody
>> for 2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner
>> about being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released
>> March 4, 1973.
>>
>> Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as
>> solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He
>> remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.
>>
>> John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your
>> claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of
>> standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a
>> bit over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean
>> you are a war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either
>> way, you're not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less
>> commander in chief.
>>
>> One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say
>> something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I
>> caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to
>> help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was
>> thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt
>> them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."
>>
>> Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
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