From: MV (MV@dc9.tzo.com)
Date: Tue May 31 2005 - 18:19:45 PDT
The hardener that I have used with the Tractor Supply brand, Majestic,
Valspar, and Rustoleum brand industrial paints and others has been Napa
Econo-Body #15118. It specifically says Sythetic Enamel Hardener on the
front. I bought several pints of the stuff a year ago or so, but I'm
running low again so I will be on the hunt for more soon. It used to be
about $10-$12.00/pint but I think NAPA may be charging around
$15.00/pint for it now.
The ingredients are:
Xylene
Isophorone Diisocynate Polymer
n-Butyl Acetate
Ethylbenzene
1,2,4 Trimethylbenzene
1,3,5 Trimethylbenzene
Light Aromatic Hydrocarbons
The warnings:
Besides being flammable..
Overexposure may cause lung damage
May cause allergic and respiratory and skin reactions, effects may be
permanent
Causes eye irritation
Harmful if inhaled, may affect the brain or nervous system, may cause
dizziness, don't eat the stuff, etc.
I mix about 8 oz or half a pint per gallon of paint. I usually shake
the can in a shaker to make sure there are no lumps first. Pour off
part of the can, about a quart or so and put in the 8 oz of hardener.
Shake the can again, and then hand mix the paint with the quart I poured
off. I don't thin the paint unless I have too. If I do, I use plain
old paint thinner and then only enough to allow me to spray it.
I typically use a pressure feed spray gun with a 1 qt cup for spraying a
gallon or two of paint. Campbell Hausfeld sells one - you can tell it
from the others since it has a knob just above the cup that allows you
to pressurize the cup or turn off the pressure and use it as a regular
siphon gun. These guns have external mix air caps. I've never had good
luck with internal mix air spray guns. The last I looked they were
going for about $55.00 each. I think it may be model DH 5200 ??
Siphon guns are fine for thinner paints such as automotive enamel, but
industrial enamel is typically a lot more viscous.
Regarding the use of an air supply mask etc. When I was a kid I had
chronic bronchitis, and then I had double pneumonia when I was a
teenager. Regardless to say I don't smoke (I'd be dead by now) and I'm
quite sensitive to the health of my lungs. When I first started using
hardnener in paint I was living in Cincinnati and I talked to my lung
doctor about the decision to use hardener in paint or not. As it turned
out my lung doc was into restoring old sports cars so he knew exactly
what I was talking about. He explained the the need for air supplied
respirators was based on the commercial use of the product with a
weighted exposure that represented a normal 8 hour - 40 hour work week
- basically full time painting. His advice, was to use a good charcoal
mask paint respirator - the rubber kind that fits to your face with an
exhalation valve and replaceable or non replaceable charcoal cartridges.
He also said to replace the cartridges or the mask frequently. I buy
3M or equivalent disposable paint respirators - they are about $20 each
and I use them and throw them away after each large project. I have
never had any problems at all. In fact I have more problems with
secondhand smoke and welding fumes than I do with paint fumes. I just
look at the $20 as part of the cost of the job. It's the cost
equivalent of an extra gallon of paint cost or so. I use a similar mask
when sandblasting. But I'm thinking about getting a pressurized hood as
the dust can get extreme.
If I use the mask for only a short time, I use it, wipe it down and put
it into a gallon size freezer bag so the Charcoal doesn't saturate while
it is being stored.
Also, I try to avoid skin contact with the paint - I wear solvent
resistant nitrile gloves and change them frequently during a project.
They are disposable and fairly cheap. I also wear long sleeve shirts
and pants to avoid getting hit with overspray or an errant gun movement.
The Isocynates in the hardener can penetrate your skin and get into
your body and cause problems. This can also happen with gasoline, and
other solvents. Ever notice your hands tingling after cleaning some
parts in gas?
I've never tried to use hardener with hi zinc paint - the stuff that is
actually heavy from the zinc content. I have used the hardener with the
equivalent of Rustoleum rusty metal primer, and several other primers
and they simply set up a lot faster. Spraying is actually easier since
there is less time for the paint to run - that is especially signficant
in warm weather.
I think chemical and gasoline resistance is greatly improved with
hardener. I have painted several tractors with hardened paint and the
paint doesn't soften and rub off when a bunch of gasoline is spilled
while filling the tractor. The hardener also really makes gloss paint
look wet.
I sandblasted and painted a 22 ft flatbed truck chassis the week before
last. I sprayed it with a rusty metal primer with hardener and then
topcoated it with some gloss black Majestic industrial paint with
hardener. I went to pickup a load with the truck and a rigger reached
under the truck to find a spot to put the binder hook and said that he
thought he got his hand in a bunch of wet grease" he thought the
undercarriage was still wet with something. The paint was that glossy.
The hardened paint sets a lot faster so the dust free time is a lot
shorter. With 8 oz of hardener in a gallon, most of the industrial
paints I have used can be handled lightly in 2-3 hours hours at 70
degrees. And they are hard - finger nail hard - overnight. Hardener is
also great to use in the winter. I have sprayed, brushed and rolled
Rustoleum enamels in 40 degree temps and it sets up overnight and fully
hardens in a day or so. Some thinning is normally required since
Rustoleum has the consistency of glue in 30 degree weather. If I had
not used hardener it would have still been soft after a week in 30-40
degree temps. So although the paint companies typically say you should
only apply when above 50 degrees, I would not hestitate to paint down to
35 degrees with hardened paint as long as the surface was dry.
Dave
Fred H. Schlesinger wrote:
> What type of hardeners do you use with your enamel paints?
>
> Are there different hardeners for different paints?
>
> I have shot many types of 2 part paint products, like Imron, for example,
> which is factory designed to use a 2 part mix. But have never experimented
> with using a hardener in regular old enamel (or Laquer).
>
> What do I have to know? IE, is active respiration required like with Imron?
> Are there any coparisons of paint with hardener to without, etc.
>
> Can you add hardener to a rust preventive hi zinc product? Special primers?
> Resistance to fuel/volitiles??
>
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Fri Oct 28 2005 - 22:42:57 PDT