From: MV (MV@dc9.tzo.com)
Date: Wed Mar 30 2005 - 07:33:10 PST
Regardless as to whether or not this and that is in the TOS, if it is
wrong, it is wrong. And we have a legal right to bitch about what is
wrong. GL is acting above the legal norm and they can do that because
they are a monopoly granted by the US government. They have no
competition. Hence forth they need to be treated like a monoply and
regulated by the same US government. The US government is suppose to be
controlled by the people - and that would be US!
Dave
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wayne Harris wrote:
> You wrote "I was totally unaware of that GL policy about not being able
> to use this option or else! GL's response was its in the TOS, more like
> it's buried somewhere in the pages of TOS!"
>
> I don't know if I would mention that part, if you plan on presenting
> your case to your elected officials, while I'm not a lawyer I do have a
> extensive background of watching Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown, the Texas
> guy and the like :-)) and as soon as you tell them, Well I signed the
> contract but I didn't read it, you hear them say case dismissed!
>
> As far as I know on writing on a contract you can put anything you like
> in one and it is enforceable as long as it is not something illegal by a
> state or Federal law.
>
> Both ebay and paypal has in their TOS if you do something they don't
> like they can ban you for life.
>
> On your website idea that is great, check out www.paypalsucks.com they
> have been operating for years against paypal.
>
> FYI Paypal and G/L must get their office personal from the same place.
> Good luck, Wayne
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> From: Patrick Jankowiak <recycler@swbell.net>
>> To: "Military Vehicles Mailing List" <mil-veh@mil-veh.org>
>> Subject: Re: [MV] Anti-GL site (Here's a preview)
>> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2005 18:38:06 -0600
>>
>> Do it. They can do nothing as long as you go no farther than 'fair
>> use', and the web page is truthful. There is no wrong which can be
>> done by people offering their opinions on the WWW. What are they going
>> to do, send the french army to get you? or the black helicopters? (if
>> they are GL helos, they won't be flightworthy.. heh.)
>>
>> Mil-Veh Co. wrote:
>>
>>> When you read the following it is intended to be the
>>> first page introduction and it will have some GL like
>>> logo stuff and resemble in a way the GL site, just to
>>> give you the picture of what you are in for... of
>>> course this is just a sample of what we could do, you
>>> guys may have better ideas. Your comments will be
>>> appreciated.
>>>
>>> I know there is some risk that the evil GL will try
>>> some legal scare tactics, but we need to stand fast
>>> because we are right. GL is an arrogant giant and has
>>> ruined the experience of buying surplus for many of
>>> us. OK here goes:
>>>
>>> This pro-consumer, "anti- Government Liquidations"
>>> site was created to expose the nightmare of doing
>>> business "GL" way.
>>>
>>> Post your complaints, troubles, fraud stories,
>>> lawsuits, and other dissatisfaction in the forums.
>>> Read the faq pages for help in resolving your GL
>>> troubles and complaints.
>>>
>>> To enumerate the complaints:
>>>
>>> 1. According to GL accepting their ToS (Terms of
>>> Service) in effect means you waive your rights to
>>> credit card consumer protection laws if you want to
>>> use their service, and that you may not issue a
>>> chargeback for unauthorized use of your credit card
>>> and PayPal account, or if you do, then they have the
>>> right to permanently ban you from their site! Is this
>>> legal? We don't know, but it's how GL operates. See
>>> GL's TOS for more information, its in there, but you
>>> practically have to be a Philidelphia lawyer to find
>>> it..If you have a problem with "GL" or they feel your
>>> actions are questionable, then GL is the investigator,
>>> judge, jury and executioner. "Telling your side" of
>>> what happened, in most cases seems to be irrelevant
>>> and is met with a stonewall corporate attitude. Try
>>> to get the details of their investigation or documents
>>> they relied upon to make their decisions, ha!
>>>
>>> 2. Their customer service is horrible. They make you
>>> call on their dime to resolve problems they caused. Once you get
>>> there expect the process to be tedious,
>>> fraught with obstruction and you likely get bounced
>>> around from person to person. If that was not bad
>>> enough, chances are you will get zip, just a lecture
>>> on why it's YOUR FAULT.
>>>
>>> If you feel you have been treated unfairly by this
>>> corporation, you need not feel alone, nor helpless. This time the
>>> "little guy" is taking a stand against
>>> this huge monopoly. Like you, we're fed up with
>>> "Government Liquidations" arrogance, rudeness and
>>> highly questionable business practices. If these tactics were done by
>>> you or your small
>>> business operation, you would would soon be out of
>>> business, however GL's doesn't have to worry about
>>> customer satisfaction because they are the only game
>>> in town, so to speak.
>>>
>>> GL has a monopoly on a good deal of the US military
>>> surplus they are selling around the world. The loss
>>> of a few hundred customers due their shoddy behavior
>>> is no big deal. They know there are thousands of
>>> others who will take the place of those angry
>>> customers because buyers are virtually forced to do
>>> business with them or do without. So, you to do it
>>> their way or no way and if they are wrong you better
>>> just get over it or you're not going to be doing
>>> business with them again. Apparently GL never heard
>>> of, "The customer is always right." Now it's more
>>> like "GL is always right!"
>>>
>>> Case in point, awhile back I had been buying surplus
>>> on a fairly regular basis from GL. Since their suplus
>>> pickup points vary with individual auctions and times,
>>> I occassionally had to wait weeks, sometime even
>>> months if a release form was needed from the
>>> government. Then I would make my rounds and retrieve
>>> the items I bought, so far so good.
>>>
>>> This worked for a time, then one day I was told some
>>> property I had bought thru GL had been placed back
>>> into "inventory" and resold without any notice to me! I think about
>>> 5-6 weeks had passed from the time I
>>> bought it and when they resold it. Seems how long
>>> they hold property changes from location to location
>>> and it depends on who you know.
>>>
>>> This was a stunner and the lack of courtesy involved
>>> left me feeling pretty flat. Heck, I was a pretty
>>> good customer and I knew many people at the site where
>>> the property was warehoused. Is that legal to resell
>>> already sold and paid for property without noice to
>>> the buyer? I don't know, but it sure is unethical. It's not like
>>> they couldn't contact me, they had all
>>> sorts of email, phone and address information on me
>>> from my many prior contacts.
>>> I protested of course this VISA charge and they said
>>> they would take it under consideration. Well, weeks
>>> passed and nothing happened. I made several more
>>> frustrated inquiries and felt like I was just getting
>>> the runaround. Finally, I decided to protest the
>>> charge made to my card with VISA and see what happens.
>>>
>>>
>>> I was totally unaware of that GL policy about not
>>> being able to use this option or else! GL's response
>>> was its in the TOS, more like it's buried somewhere in
>>> the pages of TOS!
>>> When I did file a complaint with VISA and GL became
>>> aware of it, I was bluntly informed by them that
>>> filing such a protest was akin to "thievery" in their opinion and I
>>> was now forbidden from using GL's
>>> auction for life. Of course at the time of this
>>> incident GL held all the cards. I never got my
>>> property, they threatened to keep my money, they
>>> dragged their feet on making a decision to refund it
>>> and they had the audacity to say I was a thief for
>>> protesting this charge? No rational appeal was welcomed by GL,
>>> although I
>>> really tried. I laid it all out on the phone and in
>>> writing and I got precisely nowhere. Funny, this
>>> whole thing could have been avoided if they had just
>>> notified me before reselling my property. That was
>>> pretty rude! Or if they had responded in a timely
>>> manner for my request for a refund of my money.
>>> Well, they wouldn't budge, it was all my fault
>>> according them and they got pretty nasty with me,
>>> reminding me of what a terrible thing I had done to
>>> protest the VISA charge. The audacity of that poor
>>> treatment still raises my blood pressure.
>>>
>>> Yes, I finally did get a refund from GL when they got
>>> around to it, but I also got the boot for simply doing
>>> what the VISA card says I can legally do, according to
>>> my cards TOS! Well, never mind the vendor VISA
>>> contract agreement either, apparently GL is big enough
>>> to get away with NOT abiding by the rules most others
>>> must.
>>>
>>> VISA said they would not revoke their vendors account
>>> because of this practice, never got a clear reason
>>> why.
>>> This was ONLY one incident, but since then I have
>>> conversed with my friends on the internet and found
>>> many other stories of what I consider to be "consumer
>>> abuse." I would like you to read some of those
>>> stories as time permits that I can post them here.
>>> UPDATE: I've heard GL is actually a French owned
>>> business with many of their top execs are NOT
>>> Americans which seems odd since this is US government
>>> military surplus we are talking about here. I'm
>>> looking into this part and if its true I am going to
>>> ask my Congressman why isn't an all American business handling
>>> American surplus? And why isn't their some
>>> sort of appeal mechanism for disatisfied customers
>>> like me? Seems like fair questions to me and I'll let
>>> you know what I find out as soon as I can.
>>> Till then, I urge anyone doing business with "GL" to
>>> "read the fine print" and be very careful about what
>>> you are buying and the local terms and conditions,
>>> which can vary widely. Make sure you inspect the
>>> item/s if at all possible to prevent a switch. Have
>>> something in writing about when you intend to pickup
>>> your property too, so the kind of incident I had
>>> doesn't happen to you. I guess I trusted GL too much
>>> and took too much for granted as I couldn't envision
>>> them doing what they did...well, live and learn. But,
>>> it's not over because I want people to know the kind
>>> of stuff GL is doing to people and when you read the
>>> reports from other customers here, you'll really
>>> appreciate my warnings. Who knows maybe we will have
>>> enough clout to effect some positive change at GL?
>>>
>
>
>
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